I was watching a debate before the midterm elections in the 1st congressional district in NY (my district) between incumbent democrat Tim Bishop and republican challenger Randy Altschuler.
(as of this writing the race is still undecided by the way)
Altschuler is a business man who created his company (Office Tiger) on his own and created hundreds of local jobs. He was put on the defensive because he also outsourced thousands of jobs to India. When questioned on it I think he did a terrible job of explaining it but the truth is that in NY the laws and regulations and taxes etc. make it a better business decision to outsource.
NY is not unique with regard to these laws but unless you're watching CNBC or reading the Wall Street Journal or Investors Business Daily you just don't hear the truth. You want to know why California's unemployment rate is so high?
Here you go...... LEAVING CAL!
26 comments:
Personally, I am in favor of just the right amount and just the right type of regulation. The devil is in the details.
In recent history the economy has done better under Democratic Presidents than Republicans. Go figure. I do credit one Republican though for naming the current Republican economic philosophy: voodoo economics.
Kennedy cut the tax rates from 91% to 70%, and revenue went up, although that was partly due to increased enforcement of the tax laws and eliminating some loopholes. The Reagan and Bush tax cuts resulted in lower revenues and increased deficits. You will probably disagree with these facts because you've read some untrue nonsense somewhere.
Why do you even bother to comment with such drivel. Oh, youre in favor of just the right amount of regulation??? As opposed to those in favor of the wrong amount. Just an absolute waste of a sentence.
And that you make the claim tax revs didnt rise under bother Reagan and Bush, of course under the dem (conservative by todays standards) JFK tells me three things I already knew about you.
You are a hyper partisan
You dont understand economics
You lie
To the point of Rhino's post, burdensome taxation stifles growth.
"You are a hyper partisan
You dont understand economics
You lie"
That's called projection.
Great rebuttal. You couldve skipped Psych 101 and just used the oft used schoolyard "im rubber and youre glue"
You are an intellectual child.
And yet you are the one who always ignores facts and starts with insults.
There you go again.
When you want to start behaving like an adult, I will treat you as such. If you keep making outrageous claims without backing them up like a child, I will treat you as such.
Well you know I used to back up my comments with facts and links but you never read them and skipped straight to the insults so I gave up. Hell, if 97% of the world's climate scientists arent' good enough, what would be? If 99.99% of the world's biologists don't convince you on evolution what would be good enough?
No Gary, you never have. See, you cant differntiate between fact and opinion.
Case in point, global warming. We asked you hundreds of times to provide proof that carbon was directly responsible for temperature changes in the climate, and furthermore that the .04% of said carbon produced by mankind is soley responsible for above mentioned changes.
You cant do so, because none exists, so you would post links of people saying global warming is real, mind you most are the same people that said global cooling was real 30 yrs ago. Heck, you couldnt provided documentation to back up your claim of 97% of scientists, whereas< I know Rhino on numerous occasians poked holes in your theory of consensus.
And now you make the outlandish claims that tax revs decreased after Reagan's and Bush's tax cuts. Its just not true, no matter how many Paul Krugman articles link.
Unlike you, numbers dont lie.
...and as always you ignore the point of the post. Why are businesses leaving California, one of the most lib states in nation?
Is it because, as you implied, Bush and Reagan's tax cuts sucked and democrats rule?
You bring nothing to the table.
If Kennedy were alive, hed bitch slap you like Marilyn Monroe.
OK, I will try one more time.
As to 97% of climate scientists accepting rhe realigty of AGW: I did not pull that number out of my ass, there was a recent study, one of several. See: http://news.mongabay.com/2009/0122-climate.html
As for global cooling in the 70s:
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2008-02-20-global-cooling_N.htm
I won't link to the Paul Krugman articles but he is after a Nobel Prize winner in the field of economics. Therefore I suppose he just makes stuff up?
As to your moronic request for proof of global warming. I cannot prove it to a 100% certainty but the science would put the probability at over 90%. You have also requested "proof" of evolution in the past. Again there is no proof to a mathematical certainty but the "consensus" there is over 99%.
If so many smart people agree, then surely there is some proof of how .004% of man's carbon contribution is 100% responsible. There isnt, cuz there aint.
See, you get a boner for consensus, I cast doubt knowing that all great scientific achievements and discoveries were against the herdish consensus sheep mentality. You just like to baaah.
Now, Im done with the global warming distraction. It doesnt matter if Im right or if youre right. The issue is dead, the major proponents shamed in disgrace, and all major legislation is dead.
Now, if you have anything to add to Rhino's post about why business is leaving the failed liberal state of California for the thriving conservative state of Texas, Id be interested in hearing you lies on that subject as well.
You may be right that the issue of GW is politically dead but how can you say it doesn't matter which of us is right? If I'm right then the lack of action will have the most serious consequences.
"all great scientific achievements and discoveries were against the herdish consensus sheep mentality."
Some truth to that but your logic implies that the consensus must be wrong, on global warming, on plate tectonics, on evolution, on relativity, on everything.
The minority on GW could conceivably be proven right one day, although I think the opposite is much more likely to be true, given both the overwhelming nature of the consensus at this time, and the fact that the minority never seem to do any actual research. Majorities can be wrong. So can minorities.
New ideas in science are often discounted, true enough, at least until they prove themselves, but on the other hand most new ideas are wrong. Science has a method, which you discount or ignore.
Not sure how this got to g.warming but the FACT remains that government regs. Have stifled job growth and new business in california. Cali is the most liberal state in the country and it is no coincidence that in spite of the desirability of living there and in spite of it's natural resources etc. It is a failed state. Not failing, not having a tough time, but a complete and utter failure.
The policies and philosophy of the left have been tried over and over. FACT is it doesn't work.
Game over!
FYI Milton Friedman won the Nobel prize in economics when it was was still a legit organization and his conclusions are the opposite of krugmans.
More to the point Keynes has been proven wrong and California is exhibit A
i personally think outsourcing is a huge problem for this country. i'd like to understand what EXACTLY made Altschuler send jobs to India. I run a (very) small business (most payroll period I'm the only person, but occasionally I hire others) and I do know how EXTREMELY expensive it is to pay employees. It's far more than just the base salary. You pretty much have to take that salary and multiply it by 2 and then you've got amount of cash you need in the bank to cover the cost of that employee.
In the end though, that just happens to be the cost of doing business in the U.S. Would Randy Altschuler have gone out of business if he kept his jobs in the U.S. or would his profit margin have been slightly less? You are lumping his decision into one big lump of "NY ... laws and regulations and taxes etc." A few specifics would be helpful.
You guys talk about patriotism, but at times like this, I think one of the most UNpatriotic thing to do is to send large swaths of jobs overseas. Why is California's unemployment rate so high? Well, maybe because the employers out there are so greedy (and unpatriotic) that they send their jobs overseas. Or they are so greedy that they employ illegal immigrants to do the work that Americans want to do for a living wage.
I do agree that something needs to be done to both create Incentives to hire Americans (as weird and bizarre as that sounds) as well as DISincentives (and even fines) for outsourcing good American jobs that will allow the middle class to get back to growing and prospering again.
Anita, i don't know the specifics as I don't know him personally.
I would speculate however that he wouldn't have gone out of business if he didn't outsource but I think you're looking at the wrong way.
You're painting him (or anyone who outsources) as someone who is greedy or "has enough" already. But that's your perspective. I'm sure there are people who are poorer than you who think you could give them some of your money and you could eat cheaper food or live in a smaller apartment, or drive a cheaper car, or whatever. Are you just being greedy? Why do you need so much when so many are out of work?
Also, why would it be wrong if he wants bigger profits? You went into business to just get by? Just be able to pay your rent? Not leave an inheritance for your children or buy nice things for your family? NO. You work your ass off to better your life and the lives of your dependents (if you have any). That's why I work 10-12 hour days and haven't taken a vacation for 2 years. (also because i'm crazy)
I agree however that people who hire illegal aliens should be penalized. The problem is government rules like minimum wage make it tougher for some of these businesses to hire low skilled Americans. Also, big government (regardless of party) is always in bed with big business so that's a matter that won't be addressed until we get more tea party candidates elected.
The reasons I started my own business are many, and I won't go into them here.
However, I will say, as a small business, there are in fact years that I just "get by" and others where I do much better. That is the nature of the beast, as they say. In fact, some people would rather work for themselves and have less inherent stability and more risk simply because it is in their nature to challenge themselves. That is the essense of small business and the small business person. Just because you are running a small business does not, and I repeat, does not guarantee more or less financial security than if one had a good job in a stable company or were in a union. In fact, as a small business owner, if my business were to go down the tubes, I could not, as the prinicipal of the firm, be allowed to collect unemployment, even though I have paid into it all along. That's another "nature of the beast" thing.
And yes, I do believe, strongly in fact, that for most of these companies that outsource large numbers of skilled jobs to places like India are in fact greedy. For these businesses it's not about the business owner him / herselves creating an inherentance for their childrent or driving a BMW or Mercedes versus a Subaru. These guys who have the critical mass of employees already have their retirements and their cars and their kids in private schools, whether or not they outsource. At this point it becomes that incremental return on investment they want (and need or are required) to show their institutional or more sophisticated (and greedy) shareholders, many of whom are likely international corporations and individuals anyway.
Don't get me wrong. I don't see anything wrong with wanting to be a more profitable company. That's what running a business is about. But when the company loses its sense of "where it came from" ... its loyalty to its own country, to the workers of that country and choses insread to subsidize a healthy and propspering middle class in India or even Canada or the Philipines, and then gives the middle finger to the struggling (and even possibly disappearing) middle class right here in the United States, just to avoid "NY taxes and regulations ... or whatever" ... then, to me, that is downright unpatriotic and that company needs to be fined, put out of business, or worse ... for treason.
And, by the way, I see no evidence that this particular issue is even on the radar of the "Tea Party."
Unpatriotic and Treasonous.
All I can say is it's a good thing most business people don't think like you do. If Henry Ford thought like you we would still be riding horses. If Ray Kroc thought like you we would never have had the Big Mac (don't even try it, I know you love the fries!)If Sam Walton thought like you we would be paying 10 times more for our stuff we buy at Walmart. If Al Gore thought like that we would never have had the internet!!!! And all the people who earn their living at these and other companies large and small would still be farming!
Less profit not only means less jobs created but also less reinvestment in the company, Less investment in R&D, Less innovation, Less taxes in the coffers, A lower standard of living, Less spending by the owners of the company, etc. etc. etc.
I wish you luck Anita. I think you're going to need it.
Well, either did not read what I wrote or you totally missed my point. But that's OK. When ideas transcend out of your narrow ideological sphere, you are unable to process them and you therefore revert to your knee jerk reactionism.
And yes I admit that was a bit strong by saying "treasonous" but I do think American companies should, particularly at difficult times like we are living in now, have a sense of their role in maintaining the fabric of our nation. Ray Kroc and Henry Ford would agree, I'm sure.
Other than that, I wish you luck Rhino. I think you are going to need it. The world seems to be a little more complicated than you are able to cope with. Might I suggest you read some Thomas Paine? Start with "Common Sense" and then try "The Age of Reason."
Thanks for the well wishes Anita.
I've already read "Common Sense"
Good book.
I would recommend to you that you read Ayn Rand. Try Atlas Shrugged and then maybe Fountainhead.
I guess you think I'm not smart enough to understand what you meant. The truth is that your previous comment was rather long and incoherent but the message I got from it was that you think business people who are more worried about profit than employing fellow Americans are greedy.
If that wasn't your message then maybe i'm not smart enough. If that was your message then I think my response was proper.
that wasn't my message, which was perfectly coherent, by the way. and no, you are not stupid, but you are intellectually narrow and lacking in curiosity. and i've read both the fountain head and atlas shrugged. i've read other works by ayn rand as well. they are enjoyable reads but i do not buy her arguments. they, too, are intellectually and emotionally shallow.
Dont you owe me a drink?
Intellectually and emotionally shallow? No wonder Rhino recommends them. I've never read Ayn Rand although I once read a book with her name in the title (guess). I did read Age of Reason though, still one of the best books on religion.
What can I say Anita? Your argument is much too strong.
Outsourcing is Treason, Ayn Rand is intellectually and emotionally shallow, and I am intellectually narrow and lacking in curiosity.
Just want to point out that if I said that about you I would be the big meanie name caller and we wouldn't hear from you for a few months.
what can i say. i'm a very sensitive soul with a touch of a mean side. sorry for running away for such long periods of time. it's nice to know you miss me! ;-)
and d-hue, actually, you owe me a drink, as i recall. i thought of that a few days ago when i was walking through grand central and remebered a plan (some time ago) to meet at the campbell apartment.
we do miss you anita.
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