If the liberal argument that our invasion of Iraq (with full UN approval for Saddams continued defiance of UN resolution 1441) has "created" the enemy is true, how do you splain how a nation (Iran for those playing at home) that declared war on us over thrity years ago seems to be behind the majority of the bad guy rabble rousing now occuring in Iraq. Hold yer gosh dang horses a minute...dont answer yet.... I think I know, it was a time machine. McFly? But not just any time machine....a DeLorean, which by my estimations with the old news but recently resurfacing admittance of American Idol winner Barack Hussein Obama snow skiing past... will replace the Prious and become the de facto car of choice amongst the uber-libs.What part of --- we're the good guys dont liberals understand? This war doesnt end if we leave Iraq...we will just be giving up the high ground, and not the moral type libs love to cite but the actual tactical high ground (see: Little Round Top and Gen Joshua L Chamberlain -- back when academics actually tried to help America win wars)
EE-Aw!!!
Iran's Secret (is it really a secret? -- donk.)Plan For Mayhem
By ELI LAKE
Staff Reporter of the Sun
January 3, 2007
WASHINGTON — Iran is supporting both Sunni and Shiite terrorists in the Iraqi civil war, according to secret Iranian documents captured by Americans in Iraq.
The news that American forces had captured Iranians in Iraq was widely reported last month, but less well known is that the Iranians were carrying documents that offered Americans insight into Iranian activities in Iraq.
An American intelligence official said the new material, which has been authenticated within the intelligence community, confirms "that Iran is working closely with both the Shiite militias and Sunni Jihadist groups." The source was careful to stress that the Iranian plans do not extend to cooperation with Baathist groups fighting the government in Baghdad, and said the documents rather show how the Quds Force — the arm of Iran's revolutionary guard that supports Shiite Hezbollah, Sunni Hamas, and Shiite death squads — is working with individuals affiliated with Al Qaeda in Iraq and Ansar al-Sunna.
link
27 comments:
No question that Iran is the big winner in Iraq and may be playing both sides. Not only that but our misadventure in Iraq makes it less likely that we will attack Iran. The Iranian leadership probably thank Allah every night for George W. Bush.
My prediction for Iraq in 2007: it will get very bad. Actually, it's very bad now, but I mean very bad compared to now. The Bush surge plan will not work. What is Plan B anyway?
Donkey I think you often mischaracterize the "liberal" position. The question is whether or not it makes sense to be there, if victory is even POSSIBLE< and if so...what the fuck does victory look like? A deficit the size of jupiter (the reconstruction will pay for itself with oil money, eh?)
The argument that it fights terror is bullsh9it too as it unstable, and recruitment is helped not hurt by that.
You act like if you sit and debate if Saddam was a bad guy all day that it addresses these things and it doesn't.
If you yell that Democrats were for it before they were against it, does that answer the question about what we are DOING there? No.
Just like you guys drone on about how the Dems had no plan, to deflect attention from the fact that Bush had no plan. And they have been the damn leadership, or did your time machine take us someplace else?
Donkey go back on damned vacation. This post is fuckwitted. All you do is write piss and vinegar and you dont asnwer shit.
Victory aint about acting like whining pussies and dumping the mess onto the Democrats. Its not about continuing a course forever when all indications say its not working. Thats just stupid.
exactly right, EB. and this thing about "what part of 'we're the good guys' don't you understand" is ridiculous. we're the incompetent fools here. it's embarrassing.
SOME Americans are the good guys, but these clowns don't represent them.
Somehow hating incompetence means you hate America. America used to be about competence, taking care of business, having the clout and respect to sit at the table, being able to develop economic policies, trade policies, and show some leadership.
Why aren't conservatives crying in their beer about trade? About the expense? About alot of other things? Too busy with the war on Christmas?
These people are negative self interested jackasses that dont care about the good of America. No wonder so few of them serve in the military. Victory with other people's lives, not their own of course.
WHen it comes dwon to it, for all the patriotism and debate about who gets hotter over Bin Laden, I dont see many of these people actually doing anything. No plan, no explanation, no tweaking, no startegy, no definition of victory, bitch about the Un but do nothing about it. Bitch about Iran but spend all our money on Saddam. It IS embarrassing.
Anyone who supports this agenda clearly supports driving America into the ground.
Maybe they will beg China for equipment for our soldiers. Oh and the money to pay for this shit.
Whats victory? Does ANYONE have an answer to that? WHats the goal? NO answers to that either.
blah blah make Iraq stable? This is stable? Gimme a break.
Victory is stability in the majority of the country and especially in the population centers like baghdad.
The plan to acheive this SHOULD BE to take the gloves off. Let our soldiers fight and kill the enemy instead of being a police force and worrying about lawsuits.
The troop surge will work IF the military tactics are changed from keeping the peace to killing the enemy.
I don't know why this is so difficult to understand?
As far as Iran is concerned, i see two things that make me think we have less to worry about than you think.
Number 1. their infrastructure (oil) is crumbling, and so they can't survive without help from other countries to put it back together.
2. without oil they will starve and so they can't afford to have us blockade their oil shipments and or destroy the current infrastructure. Shit they can't even afford to slow down production and they're going like crazy to keep it going as much as possible.
Iran is not a problem unless we allow them to be. Is it worth it to stick it out in Iraq? Yes because if Iran does take control they WILL be a problem. Will the oil revenues pay for the war? Eventually they might, but the fact is that it doesn't matter! Our economy is booming.
A deficit the size of Jupiter is inacurate and for all of the hand wringing over money spent, you forget the money earned that comes back into our economy. Money or wealth is not a fixed commodity like gold, it is continually created. so if a big piece of the pie is spent on Iraq, we can just make more pie.
think about it.
While I respect both of you gals right to express your position, I cant say I have any actual respect for the position itself.
Your negativity and America hating knows no bounds and I thank my lucky stars every night that you and your ilk didnt have as much influence in wars past. You wouldve called Gen Washington a fucktard for losing Manahattan. You would have called Madison an incompetent nazi for allowing the White House to be burned to the ground. WWII unwinnable and Iwo Jima a quagmire.
Would it kill you to be a part of the solution (winning) instead of finger pointing the blame game? Would it kill you to love your Country?
There a reason the enemy rejoiced when your party won and its not because they hate Bush, its because they hate all of us... and know their chances are better against the pusillanimous democrats. Youre the ones to always cite Vietnam...then fucking learn from it you god damn hippies instead of gloating over another possible defeat.
Now as far as the content of my blog is concerned. You are more than free to disagree and vocalize said disagreement but this aint no party this aint no disco and I dont take no requests. If you dont like it what we write about, change the channel.
Jumping back in on the debate here. First of all, Donkey fuck you. Anita and Elizabeth love their country as much as you do.Questioning their patriotism is un-American. Why do YOU hate everthing this country is supposed to stand for?
Rhino, thank you for defining victory at long last. By your standard we are losing. The surge will not work. You read it here first.
You are wrong as always. Calling someone out for rooting against their country isnt un-American....rooting against your country is un-American.
You like most on the left are not pacifists, you are not anti-war...you think President George Bush stole the election in 2000 so your politics since have been anti-Bush. If he didnt invade you wouldve probably called him a pussy for not backing up the UN. You are the same people that applauded and defended Clintons illegal bombing of Kosovo and airstrikes on Iraq for violating UN Resolutions and the very same people now calling for military intervention in Darfur.
You are frauds and phonies and peaceniks only for convenience of political necessity.
Actually we are trying to save our country. It is not even a left vs. right thing. Pat Buchanan is as opposed to neo-conservative imperialism as I am.
Thats what you dont get. Opposing this war and rooting for our defeat are two entirely different matters.
I opposed this war before the invasion for reasons beyond your comprehension level but now fully suppport it as it is of paramount importance not to lose...the war being waged upon us is perhaps the single greatest threat to our existence since the War Of Northern Aggresion.
Buchanan although against this war understands the importance of winning...your side doesnt. You want to lose, you feel it will give you political vindication aka schoolyard na na na na we told you so. Youre a bunch of hypocritical pussies and its as simple as that.
I am not rooting for our defeat in Iraq. I am predicting it. There were times after the invasion of Iraq when I thought that I might have been wrong. No one likes being wrong but in this case I was actually hoping that I was.Defeat in Iraq will have real consequences. Hopefully, at least, it will put a stop to the insane plans of the neocons, but even that is uncertain. Bush may yet attack Iran and/or Syria, possibly triggering another world war. I see our country engaged in insane misadventures abroad while our liberties are being increasingly threatened at home by our own government. Today I see that Bush says that he can open our mail without a warrant. What will tomorrow bring?
no, no, gary: he can open your mail, but us red-blooded god-fearing patriots have nothing to worry about.
I dont recall ever defending Kosovo or even giving an opinion, I dont recall ever saying the election was stolen, I dont agree that the deficit is unimportant and I also dont recall personally saying most of what you said here.
Its like you have arguments with a Michael Moore blow up doll or something and we all have to sit through it.
Evidently Donkeyhue's mood swing has come full circle again.
Cant you be a consistent ass like the Rhino?
You're worse than a Nassau girl. Midol!
Heres your problem Lily. You make it personal. This isnt about you. I dont write my posts with you in mind. I direct my wrath at your leadership, but you take offense because somehow you think you are different, you are special, you are enlightened. You are wrong and generally full of shit.
Your party is a bunch of America hating pussies, if you are defensive about it..thats your problem not mine.
Lily, you must understand that Donkey is cognitively impaired, suffering from exteme rigidity of thought. Ann Coulter told him that liberals hate America so it must be true.
I am not trying to personalize it Donkey but I can only speak for me, what I have said, and my positions. So thats what I defend and assume that others can do the same.
If I got into all the views you would ask who the fuck made me spokesperson. It wouldnt make sense to sit here and get into what gary or Anita have said as they can do that themselves. You argue with this generic "category" of people all the time, with a checklist of views that you attribute to everyone no matter what.
Thats pointless. Thats not discussion. Why have a blog at all if you really dont want anyone's opinions?
I am not a registered Democrat, and despite the fact that I tend to vote for them it does not mean that their views reflect EVERYBODY. I would have voted for Marilyn Manson over Bush too- so?
You cant admit that it is possible to be wrong about this, about this war.
I get it Donkey, the others know where to find me.
Funny how many times you accuse me of wanting an echo chamber.
Actually Gary you have it all wrong. All I need is to look upon your democrat leadership for proof. When they call our soldiers ghengis khan terrorists no better than pol pot, when they compare our bases to gulags. I need look no further than the peace rallies in my city with the hip liberals in their Che and Mao shirts carrying placards handed out by the World Workers Party to tell me what side they are on. You do the math.
Coulter just makes laugh for not only is she wicked smart but funny as hell.
Boo fuckin hoo the poor martyr Lily. Dont come on my blog throwing shit and then cry a frickin river when I throw it back at you and question your hypocrisy. If you wanna run with the big dogs act like one.
As you know when Im around I go to most of the rallies (as did Rhino when he was in the city) I can tell you honestly I never heard of a single Stop Bombing Kosovo rally in NYC, but theres damn near a troops out of Iraq now (yet --- Troops in Darfur now???) rally every other week. Your party is an anti-war fraud. Im sorry to break it to you. Now go make some cookies for the Hugo Chavez appreciation bake sale like a good little girl.
Thank you Donkey for that last comment which certainly proves my point about you being cognitively impaired. Liberals hate America. Liberals hate our troops. Liberals support the terrorists. Your evidence? Twisting a few statements of a few liberals. Some signs you saw at an anti-war rally, probably being carried by members of the Socialist Worker party,or some other fringe group,not liberal democrats.
We are moving in the direction of a police state, and it is not the left that is taking us there. However, I am confident that the forces of freedom and democracy will prevail.
I have no interest in running with big dogs, Donkey. I dont really get my validation from that type of thing. I know enough big dogs. I dont need a pair of nads to prove anything to anyone.
I think its unneccessary to be so rude, and I think it says alot about people that tolerate it. Says alot about me to tolerate it. Obviously I must be full of shit given that I'm busy and I spend time (over a year) hanging around with somebody who thinks so little of me.
Its not meant to be "boo hoo". Its an observation.
So its weak of me to be affected by what you say. So? Being an obnoxious prick is better?
as much as i like to argue with the donkey (i really do) i have to agree with him on this one. I used to go to all the stupid rally's just to start some shit (i own anti-che shirts) and i NEVER came across a get out of kosovo rally!
I never saw any ny slimes editorials on the quagmire over there or indiscriminate bombings by the clinton administration in Iraq when saddam violated the no fly zone. I didn't see any celebrities on TV worrying about how innocent civilians were being killed by these bombs, or worrying about the ACTUAL CIVIL WAR that clinton created in kosovo. I didn't here the criticism from the hollywierdo's about the DISASTER in Somalia, or the idiotic bombing of the aspirin factory.
before the invasion of Iraq donkey and I battled on this blog and in person about whether or not we should go in,(check the archives and you'll find some vicious fights) but once it was done the only thing donkey has said is that we have to win!
God Bless America and donkey too.
i'm not so confident, gary.
this blog is one reason why.
let me explain: despite our occasional (and for some, not so occasional) vitriol toward each other, we think each other intelligent enough to warrant repeated visits.
donkey and gary are obviously very intelligent guys, but you each hit a wall when talking to the other because you're working from completely different assumptions.
iraq is a good example. i've always been against the war (it was a no-brainer for me, as it probably was for several of you), and until a couple weeks ago, i really didn't understand the reasoning of any supporters. but hitchens laid it out real nice-like, putting his assumptions in plain view. i'm still against the war, but i have a better understanding of why our leaders are so dead set against withdrawal.
sadly, i've noticed over the past year and change that while the quality of the discourse on this blog has been fairly consistent, opinions are becoming less reasonable, less rational, and more emotional.
and rhino and donkey never disagree anymore.
and there have been so many straw men around here i thought i was in a cornfield.
what does all this have to do with the danger of a police state?
it's about partisanship. the reason rhino and donkey never disagree is that donkey, you've become increasingly partisan.
and it's this partisanship that causes people to support their government when it's doing crazy, wrong things. things that contradict their own moral principles.
admittedly, it's a small minority on each side that is ferociously partisan. but that's all you need.
we often forget,in the blogosphere, that most people are apathetic and heavily influenced by the popular media (which, unfortunately, does not include the aurora); and, that popular media create crises only to declare them solved (see the war on xmas) and build heroes to arbitrarily reduce them to nothing (see howard dean).
we live in a culture that oversimplifies complex issues into soundbites, and sums up a single man in a single scream.
it's a culture based on fear and greed, which leads naturally to blind obedience.
we're close to losing our country (and despite what certain people on the political extremes will say, it is *all* of our country) and it frightens me.
there's a reason good ole GW stepped down after 8 years, and it's the same reason that FDR died in office: our system inherently encourages a stronger central govt.
it's up to courageous men and women to stand up and fix it. but they won't.
now we could get into all the reasons why, and talk about alexis de toqueville and the neo-marxists, but let's keep it simple: it ain't gonna happen.
i mean, take a look at this blog--all we do is bitch.
donkey and rhino never disagree anymore..... on the blog.
You are wrong. Rhino and I just disagreed last week ---he picked Foreigner and I chose Bad Company.
...as far as my increasing vitriolic partisanship...well you must have missed my post over the summer titled "Im Bout To Get All Up And Partisan On This Joint"
I found some of my arguments against the war and critical of Bush being used by original thought lacking lefties on other blogs so I decided to refrain from giving them any more free ammo, not to mention I find it so damn adorable when they call conservatives fucktarded nazis and chant "give peace a chance" Nothing like the smell of patchouli in the morning --- it smells, smells like... defeatism.
My point stands that the democrat party are anti-war political opportunist frauds. My side may indeed be incompetent fucktards, but Ill choose erring on the side of America and victory every fuckin day of the week. I hate to get all white trash on ya, but as I always say in a bar fight I want the guy swinging chairs knocking motherfuckers out on my side not the che shirt hipster drinking appletinis chatting up the french chick in the corner...and make no bones about it --- we are in a street brawl whether you want to admit it or not and no matter how loud you sing kumbaya the rain aint gonna stop.
Fascists have always been good street brawlers.
Donsky, I think you are right.
Its scary shit, and some of us dont know where we fit because te dialogue on both sides is ridiculous. Liberals want the feds to have a hand in everything, but we see how far that goes. People say they want a Democracy, the voice of the people to prevail. But when the majority speaks, they're all stupid fuckwits brainwashed besides and shouldn;t be trusted. The Republicans are too bogged down by personal intrusions to appeal to those that care about individual rights, and the nature and scope of "strategic interest" has just changed. Things have changed.
I think what you had to say here is pretty accurate.
Sometimes though it comes down to loving your country enough to set aside your need to be right, a "big dog",be a partisan hack. And think about the reality in front of us, which is that the resources (human and financial) are misguided. If the argument is to be the guy swinging chairs, why swing the chairs there?
Its more like swinging chairs and in the meantime the guy you THINK is the appletini drinking pussy in the corner is leaving out the back door with your wallet.
What about the guy who tries to throw punches but he hasn't been in a real fight since third grade?
What about him?
'Sup with that...
Depends.
Did he win?
Wait... are you talking bout me?
Oh thts right I was home schooled so I "technically" didnt go to third grade.
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