"So obvious"
When i first heard the now infamous comments, it didn't surprise me at all, and i did a quick little post about it. Now Kerry is refusing to apologize and claiming that he was speaking about the president.
Putting aside for a minute the fact that he was talking to young people who would be the ones going to Iraq, and putting aside the fact that it didn't appear that he was making a joke, the reason that i don't believe him is because he has a history of attacking the men and women of our great military.
"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....
They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country."
"And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs."
"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."
But this time he was just kidding.......Really.............. Really?
44 comments:
It is SO obvious that it was a joke gone very, very bad. The worst he can be accused of here is having (very) bad (comic) timing and/or having a (very) bad speechwriters. He was talking about Bush. The George W. Bush who clearly DID NOT do his "homework" on the social and cultural and political factors that would be faced by the men and women he sent into battle in Iraq. Kerry didn't suddenly make an about-face in his speech and change the subject to denigrate the troops. To think he was doing that is a far-fetched interpretation.
Anita you are a fuckin moron.
yeah right, donkeyness. you can't come up with a thoughtful response because you know i am absolutely correct.
AND you know that Kerry was speaking the truth.
Anita you are a fuckin moron.
Anita,
if it was SO obvious, then why did the people in the audience "gasp" according to the reporters that were there?
If it was SO obvious then why didn't the kerry people IMMEDIATELY release the full video?
If it was SO obvious then why did the American Legion AND John Mclame (who has called kerry his friend on many occasions) call for an immediate apology?
If it was SO obvious, then why is every dem that he was supposed to campaign with cancelling his appearances?
Here's whats obvious- This man has a long history of insulting and denigrating the American Soldier. He wrote a book that was WORSE than his "winter soldier" testimony which he's done everything in the world to hide, his presidential bid was destroyed by veterans who served with him, and he's consistently come out on the wrong side when it comes to the U.S. military.
I don't think he was kidding, i don't think he was talking about the president, i don't think he thought it out before he said it, and he let his true arrogant stupid self come out.
Also, whats SO obvious to me is that if i wanted to insult someones education i wouldn't pick someone who got better grades than i did at the same undergraduate school and then went on tho harvard business school.
So either way, if he was talking about the troops, or the president, he's a stupid arrogant idiot.
"why did the people in the audience "gasp" according to the reporters that were there?"
It is in hindsight that it is 'so obvious' ... people gasped, as they should have, because it initially came off really, really bad ... as i said, it was a very poorly executed attempt at humour. as he acknowledged in his press conference later, he needs a new joke writer.
"why didn't the kerry people IMMEDIATELY release the full video?"
damage control, which is something ALL politicians practice ... left, right or center.
"why did the American Legion AND John Mclame (who has called kerry his friend on many occasions) call for an immediate apology"
because they understood it to be an insult of the troops (which is was not), not the insult to the president (which it was). and john mclame is (sadly) running for president.
"then why is every dem that he was supposed to campaign with cancelling his appearances?"
because it's late in the game for the 2006 elections and there is controversy surrounding this incident and no one wants to take that risk ... it's purely defense. something all politicians practice, left, right and center.
"Here's whats obvious- This man has a long history of insulting and denigrating the American Soldier."
No, he does not.
"He wrote a book that was WORSE than his "winter soldier" testimony which he's done everything in the world to hide, his presidential bid was destroyed by veterans who served with him, and he's consistently come out on the wrong side when it comes to the U.S. military."
I am unaware of the book. He was destroyed by veterans who were backed up by the RNC to destroy him. He didn't fight back, as he should have. He's a weak politician. But he's never been against the American soldier.
"I don't think he was kidding, i don't think he was talking about the president, i don't think he thought it out before he said it, and he let his true arrogant stupid self come out."
He's arrogant. Yes, I agree with you on that.
"Also, whats SO obvious to me is that if i wanted to insult someones education i wouldn't pick someone who got better grades than i did at the same undergraduate school and then went on tho harvard business school."
I'd like to see those report purported undergraduate report cards. And, would he been able to get into Harvard Business School if his name weren't 'George Bush' ... ? Just asking.
"So either way, if he was talking about the troops, or the president, he's a stupid arrogant idiot."
He's arrogant yes. Stupid, no. Idiot, No.
donkeyhue --- jagshemash !!
Anita, you are sadly uninformed, and obviously in denial.
First of all the reason why you don't know about the book is because there are few copies anymore, and the compliant news media never ran with the story.
Secondly, the undergraduate grades are now common knowledge, and if you google it you can educate yourself. kerry wouldn't release his grades during the campaign, and now we know why.
Third, If everyone mispercieved what he was saying, and now it's SO obvious that is was just a bad joke, then why haven't they rescinded their calls for apology? AND why has harold ford jr. DEMOCRAT from tenn. come out TODAY and called for an apology from kerry?
Finally, you are in denial if you say he doesn't have a long history of denigrating the American military. Did you read the statements in the post? Did you think i was making them up? Those are his statements! Wake up Anita
as i've stated before, and will state again, i am WIDE awake. i sense, however, that The Aurora has fallen asleep on the job. and that you, rhinoculous, are in a State of Denial.
I really cant believe this is debatable. The guy is a snob and he fucked up by showing his true colors.
Botched joke you say
Blame Bush you do
Its pathetic. Absolutely pathetic.
This right here sums up the differences between the left and right's thinking. The left doesnt.
Anita, that's it?
you don't address the grades? the book? the statements? the long DOCUMENTED history of kerry denigrating the military?
All you have is (i'm not in denial, you are!)
that's it? did you look up the book? "the new soldier"? did you want to address the harold ford jr. thing? or the fact that everyone is still calling for the apology?
so sad... so very sad.
Anita maybe its best that you stay out of discussions that you know very little about. Or are you happy being a Deaniac puppet?
Dont you get it? Its not Bush's fault. Its not the Iraq war's fault. Its not the vast right wing conspiracy's fault. It is John Kerry's fault. It doesnt matter what his intentions were or how the left will now interpret his intentions. They were his words out of his mouth. Its pretty cut and dry. He should be a man, apologize and disappear into the obscurity that he was destined for
I accept Senator Kerry's explanation that he was referring to Bush, who has got us stuck in Iraq (although I could pistol whip him for offering this distraction to the Republicans.)
As for the earlier quotes: the first one is true, there was a meeting in Detroit where veterans told the stories that Kerry related.
As for the second quote: soldiers in Iraq have broken into Iraqi households in the middle of the night, which no doubt does terrorize the children there. Poor choice of words at best.
What the Right won't admit is that Kerry was right about Vietnam.
If I were Kerry I would say this:
"I recognize that my remarks were clumsy and were misinterpreted. I apologize to anyone, particulary any of the men and women in the armed forces, who were offended by those remarks. I do not apologize for criticizing the Bush administration that got us 'stuck in Iraq' and will continue to do so."
Gary, was he right when he said that he committed these atrocities himself? was he right when he said he witnessed these atrocities himself?
He was wrong about vietnam, he was wrong when he criticized it before he served and after. he has been wrong from day one.
even more importantly, he thinks that the general public is as ill informed as anita when he questions how anyone could think that he (as a veteran) could insult the troops.
Gary, he acknowledged that the words were clumsy. I really don't think he owes anyone an apology here. If anything, he should apologize to the democrats for being so very clumsy and giving the republicans an opportunity to jump on his comments and distort them.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/
Kerry_Sick_of_GOP_attacks_
from_1031.html
donsky, for a guy who went to an ivy league school you're pretty stupid!
The U.S. military is MORE educated than not only ANY OTHER MILITARY IN THE WORLD, but they're even more educated than any other time in our history! AND they're more educated than the general population in the U.S. 99% of the soldiers in the military have at least a high school diploma, and if you start looking at the percentage who have advanced degrees (especially in the airforce) you will find that the percentage dwarfs that of the general public!
Oh did i say you were stupid? well that was a joke, i was actually talking about jimmy carter and bill clinton! idiot
Kerry didn't say that he participated in atrocities himself, except in the sense that the war in Vietnam, and free fire zones,etc. were atrocities. His remarks were aimed at the policies, not the soldiers. Bush, Cheney, and Rove were all of age where they could have volunteered to go to Vietnam.
I agree, Anita, tha that Kerry really needs to apologize to the Democrats.
he oversimplified. over-
"I recognize that my remarks were clumsy and were misinterpreted. I apologize to anyone, particulary any of the men and women in the armed forces, who were offended by those remarks. I do not apologize for criticizing the Bush administration that got us 'stuck in Iraq' and will continue to do so."
He wasnt criticizng Bush in fact I dont think Bush was even mentioned in the sentence in question. Whats so hard to grasp about that?
oversimplified. but his point was generally correct.
???
They may not have gone to Brown* but the US Armed Services are the best educated soldiers in the world and actually are percentage wise one of the better educated demograhics in the country.
The guy is a snob and has only contempt for the Armed Forces. He personally used it is a political springboard and has betrayted them ever since he got his campaing footage.
Is it only a matter of time when "Its Bush's Fault" becomes a legal precedent for the defense of jackassery.
Sir you are charged with public urination and indeceny
Your honor I was just protesting the Illegal Blood for Oil War in Iraq and making a statement that Bush is a big meanie.
Not quilty. Carry on.
Im bored with this topic and disgusted with the blatant partisan hackery defense of Kerry. HE FUCKED UP. Noones fault but his own. Stop being sucj victims you liberal pussies!!!
*an admitted cheap shot, but I was only joking. forgive my botched jokery
From the heritage foundation 2005.
However, our research shows that the volunteer force is already equitable. That is, it is highly likely that reinstating the draft would erode military effectiveness, increase American fatalities, destroy personal freedom, and even produce a less socioeconomically "privileged" military in the process.
In summary, we found that, on average, 1999 recruits were more highly educated than the equivalent general population, more rural and less urban in origin, and of similar income status. We did not find evidence of minority racial exploitation (by race or by race-weighted ZIP code areas). We did find evidence of a "Southern military tradition" in that some states, notably in the South and West, provide a much higher proportion of enlisted troops by population.
The household income of recruits generally matches the income distribution of the American population. There are slightly higher proportions of recruits from the middle class and slightly lower proportions from low-income brackets. However, the proportion of high-income recruits rose to a disproportionately high level after the war on terrorism began, as did the proportion of highly educated enlistees.
Gary. i guess you and anita went to brown university with donsky!
THE FOLLOWING IS FROM JOHN KERRY'S OWN LIPS!
There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages.
I Know, he was talking about someone else, or he was joking right?????? is that what you're going to tell me?
Honestly, for the first time since i've been interacting with you people i truly think you're all either really stupid, or you're fucking liars.
Thanks for the quote which proves my point that he was criticizing the policies. Are you saying that free fire zones, harassment and interdiction, search and destroy missions, etc, were not policies of the US Government? Individual soldiers did take part in war crimes, but the real crime was the war itself. That was always Kerry's emphasis.
"Honestly, for the first time since i've been interacting with you people i truly think you're all either really stupid, or you're fucking liars."
As you know, I'm not one for personal attacks, but let me jump in the fire here:
Funny, I was just thinking the exact same thing about you guys, Rhino-Nothing-At-All and Donk-Always-In-Denial.
Although, I agree with you. This subject is getting booooring.
Gary, you're welcome. I think you're really stupid, but maybe i'm talking about the general policies of the anti zontar wing of the democratic party, I think you're a liar, but maybe i'm speaking of the economy in greenland.
When i say I think something or I did something it could mean anything, so don't get insulted or huffy about it, ok champ?
Anita, you are so dishonest that it's ridiculous.
why haven't you addressed any of the points i made? not one? are you too stupid? or are you a liar?
You tell me.
"you don't address the grades?"
the grades are irrelevant here. it's about bush not doing his homework prior to going to war in iraq. not on his GPA at Yale.
"the book?"
hey, it's considered a 'collector's item' now ... but despite that, it's not just Kerry's book, it's the book of a number of people who wanted to bring to light what was going on in viet nam. once again, i believe the facts are always relevant, irrespective of who they are coming from.
the statements?
i am aware of his statements and he had every right to make them. there is something called freedom of speech in this country. and, in fact, he's more qualified to make those statements having served his country ... IN COUNTRY. versus cheney and bush et al who used their connections and their elite status to AVOID serving IN COUNTRY.
the long DOCUMENTED history of kerry denigrating the military?
he was not denigrating the military. he was bringing to light the actions of the military. the reality is that war is always ugly. no matter what side you are on. the republicans want to dress it up with patriotic rhetoric and hide the realty of life on the ground in iraq. that's more harmful in the long run that being honest about what is actually going on. the State of Denial is more comfortable, to be sure. but the The Truth is far more relevant.
"the harold ford jr. thing?"
harold ford is a very savvy guy ... a democrat running in a very conservative state. he's pandering to the conservatives he is trying to win over.
"or the fact that everyone is still calling for the apology?"
EVERYONE?
"so sad... so very sad."
yes, rhino, it IS sad. that you are in such a State of Denial.
Donkey, I agree with you that Kerry fucked up, and should be publically horse whipped. Some people should never attempt humor and Kerry is one of them.
And Rhino, you can insult me but never insult Lord Zontar, in whose name I speak. Only when Zontar rules will our planet have peace.
...or they are too smart for their own damn good**. Not every subject requires a dissertation. Sometimes it is what is. Pretty simple really. Its when the brain trusts get their hands on something is when the issue gets muddled.
For the last time as it bears repeating
"You know, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh oh, you can do well. If you dont, you get stuck in Iraq."
That is not a living breathing statement. Spin it or interpret it however the fuck you want but...
IT IS WHAT IT IS
**my vote is for stupid
Anita, it's not about the grades? the book is irrelevent?
He served in vietnam for 3 months so we should assume that everything he's saying is perfect? and since W served in the national guard he's automatically wrong? Well then maybe you should shut the fuck up unless you served "in country"
Tell me anita, how many months did you serve "in country"? how about in the national guard? If you didn't serve then you better shut the fuck up about the presidents service, you're not qualified!
Now lets get back to the point!
john mclame served... Oh but he's running for president so he's out right? how about oliver north? oh he appears on fox sometimes so he's out. the swift boat guys? oh they're part of the "right wing conspiracty" so they're out!
Who is qualified to criticize this guy? anyone? You're ridiculous!
The guy HAS A DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF DENIGRATING THE US ARMED FORCES.
FACT! I HAVE SHOWN IT OVER AND OVER! The troops who are CURRENTLY SERVING "IN COUNTRY" don't think it was "SO obvious" that he was kidding, and neither do i. He should have owned up to it and apologized, but like you and gary and donsky he's not honest or honorable enough to do it. he would rather make excuses and blame Bush for everything!
rhino, how have YOU served your country? other than being a blogging mouthpiece for the right-wing cabal?
i admit that have not. i actually wish i had. three of my best friends from high school went to military academies: West Point, the Naval Academy and the Air Force Academy respectively. i absolutely wish i had the grades, the "all around studentness" and the family political connections to have had that opportunity. i also wish i had considered ROTC in college. but i didn't. so be it.
my father saw active duty in World War II, as did two of my uncles. my brother-in-law was a sargeant in the army and served in vietnam. he watched many of his own brothers in arms die for their country.
don't call me stupid, don't call me a moron. you are making yourself look like a fool.
Anita, once again you avoid the FACTS.
kerry has a consistent documented history of denigrating the American military. FACT
it is not "SO obvious" that he was joking. FACT
in fact to me it's obvious that he was not joking, and he is trying to squirm out of it without apologizing and blaming his own actions on others.
You brought up the military service and implied that since W and Cheney didn't serve "in country" they couldn't criticize kerry. FACT
By your own logic, YOU can't criticize the military service of anyone who served ANYWHERE or at ANY TIME. FACT
You still haven't addressed the LIES that he told at the "winter soldier" testimony. FACT
You, like your man kerry, should just apologize and be done with it. You're wrong, you can't argue any facts with me because they are all on my side, and it's obvious that you are just trying to avoid any fact based argument by blaming Bush.
By the way, hillary clinton, who is NOT in any re election danger just said that john kerrys comments were innappropriate.....oh yeah that's right, we can't believe she means it because she's running for the presidency.
If that is what Hilary thinks and is calling for, then I think she's not as smart as I thought she was. She's wrong and probably pandering, as are Harold Ford and John McCain. Kerry (NOT my man, by the way) is a major bumbler. Donkey is a Jackass and you are a Fool.
And I, Anita, am correct. As usual.
Anita, why don't you just apologize to me and donkey already? You're wrong, and no matter how many times i show you the truth you deny it, no matter how many other Bush haters agree with me you claim that they're wrong or stupid, no matter how many current or former soldiers say they were offended you say that YOU are the one who knows who was offended, and what the intent of his statement was, even though the reporters who were there said that the gasps of the crowd were "audible" he didn't correct himself immediately, no matter how big the shit storm he and his camp have failed to release the original text of the speech he claimed he was reading from.
No matter how many times i ask you for facts you come back with nothing. You have nothing, you are nothing.
No Rhino, you are WRONG. Because:
I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, dog-gone-it, PEOPLE LIKE ME.
Anita, when i said you are nothing, i was talking about kerry. I botched it up, but that's what i meant.
I must say I am entering a zone to which I am very uncomfortable, but I must chime in. I am from the south, which gives me a different prospective. I am the daughter of enlisted AIRFORCE who served in the Korean conflict...in country( that was for Anita). I was the wife of enlisted NAVY who served during the first gulf war....in Kuwait, and the mother of enlisted ARMY who spent 14 months in Iraq. We are people who were raised to believe that you served your country through military service.
These people(My father, MY husband, and MY son) were well educated people who CHOSE to give back through service. The arrogance of some who have commented here make me sick. All I can say is thank God these men and women volunteer so that milk toast wimps like Donsky has the freedom to open his vile little mouth and enlighten us all with his free speech. Oh, and Anita try hormones honey, it helps with the mood swings!
John Kerry did not win his bid for President, because he is an idiot and the eyes of most "military people" and families HE SUCKS! He is truly a NON person and deserves to be botoxed into oblivion.
Well that is all this Southern Belle has to say, accept Ya'll have a nice day ya hear.
sunny, uh, sorry, but it's not 'milk toast' .. it's 'milquetoast' ... look it up in one of those big fat books they have in the library, you might of heard of them, they are called DICTIONARIES.
Its actually both. Milquetoast was a fictional character named after milk toast. God I love the internet, I can pretend that I know stuff.
AWWWWWWWW Anita, try the hormones, it really helps.
Sunny,
Thanks to you and your family, and God bless you.
Thanks, Sunny. I do appreciate your obviously sincere concern for my mental and emotional well being.
Although, I think perhaps the person MOST in need of a mood-swing remedy on this site is the Donkey himself.
So I'll pass the advice on to him, risking further humiliation because I'm sure he's going to tell me I'm a fucking moron (again).
But we women certainly know from mood swings, don't we Sunny, dear?
Anita actually although I think your position on this is indeed moronic, I should have chosen my words more wisely as it is apparent that your mind is lost and I would not want to harm your fragile psyche or disturb your alternative reality. I apologize (now thats wasnt so hard) if you were offended, now you can go back to your world of unicorns, rainbows, and a military supporting Kerry
ESPN Announcer: So Donk, where have you been for the last fifteen years?
Donk: Well, I uh, well, ya see, I uh... mood-swing remedies. Lot a mood-swing remedies.
ESPN Announcer: I see. Well, are you still taking mood-swing remedies?
Donk: No. I uh... I put... uh... Why, you buying?
actually, your donkeyness, i've ceased to be offended by you guys. i've finally realized you are all talk and no action.
or, rather, you're (mostly) all bluster and no substance.
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