I posted a question in the message boards yesterday asking how exactly people were interpreting the "referendum" of this past election. Bush and the Iraqi War are obvious answers. But I want to get into the specifics, and considering we still dont really know where the dems stand on the latter we cant really get into that right now.
I will tell you one thing that the people spoke out against and that is gay marriage. In seven out of eight states the electorate resoundingly voted for a ban on gay marriage and only in Arizona where the amendment was tied to hetersexual cohabitation did it fail. It cant feel too good to be a homosexual in the democratic party right now considering the percentage points that these bans passed by. On average the best case scenario is that only 20% and the worst case over 40% of their fellow democrats do not believe in their right to marry. So much for it being a referendum on progressive liberal social activism, that much we do know.
update: We now know that indeed the dem plan is retreat. another post another day.
16 comments:
I've always felt that the public is not ready for gay marriage (not sure I am for that matter), and thatthe gays should have gone for civil unions. Even Bush indicated that he could support civil unions. But,the gays wanted the whole loaf and the Repubs wanted a wedge issue. My daughter, who I look to for the views of the younger people, is absolutely pro-gay marriage.
The Repub plan in Iraq has been "stand and bleed" but we'll see what the Baker group will come up with.
This wasnt a pro or anti-gay marriage post. Just telling it like it is. Quite frankly I could give two shits either way. As I am anti-monogamy and anti-marriage.
Gary,
You must be the only one that doesnt already know what Baker is going to come up with and its going to be wrong..but that'll be that. Libs will have lost us another war.
Donkey, let me remind you that I predicted some time ago that we would lose this war, and that you would then blame the liberals, some of whom at least opposed this folly from the beginning. Are we to blame for being right? How about blaming the misguided policies, incompetently executed by the Bush adminstration?
What you dont understand Gary or care to ignore is that in every...EVERY damn war there have been "misguided policies, incompetently executed by the _____ adminstration"
I was watching a program on the Battle of the Bulge the other night and thought to myself, I can only imagine if that happened today and what a catastrophe it would have been if the left had its way and forced the withdrawal of US troops.
I would argue that the freedom and safety of Americans is as important as that of the French.
I never argued that Id blame the left as I always knew it would be their fault if we lost.
August 15:
Rhino: Gary, I almost forgot, Iraq IS working out!
Donkey: Iraq: Winning, but the left doing their damnedest to lose it for us
Me: If you think Iraq is working out or will work out you are living in a dream world--just like Bush and Cheney.
Me: Iraq is already lost. You just don't know it yet. Eventually you will recognize this fact but then you will blame the liberals rather than the people who got us into this mess. Mark my words.
Me: (Dec 6) Sooner or later we will leave Iraq. Sooner, I would think. The military and the intelligence community have told the Bush administration that there is no military solution.
I think we will "lose" because we cannot "win." And you will blame the libs for it. I hope I am wrong on both points but this is what I predict will happen. Time will tell.
Donkey: Iraq: Winning, but the left doing their damnedest to lose it for us.
Exactly. I was blaming the left then, and I was right. Whats your point?
Do I detect that you are getting giddy at the thought of an American defeat, I sure as hope not, but it sure looks that way.
The troop withdrawal has not yet begun but I presume you would no longer argue (as you did just a few months ago) that we are winning. The war was a mistake. Yet we are there and I would support a winning strategy, if there were one. I predicted almost a year ago that you would blame the liberals. A new prediction: 30 years from now the know-nothing Right will still blame the libs, as they do for Vietnam. I will concede one point: a war cannot be sucessful without the support of the American people.
Donkey, my "point" (it's hard to keep up with you) is that some 9 months before you made that comment I predicted that the US would lose and you would blame the libs, rather than the prosecutors of the war in Iraq. Any blame for Conservatives like Pat Buchannan, who opposed this war as well? Or recognition that he might have been right?
Once again. Whats your point? Are you more concerned with being "right" than winning.
Ive never wavered on my position that once we hit boots to the sand that the only way we'd lose is if the liberals lost it for us, just as they did in Vietnam.
You are aware that Vietnam was a democrat war and a democrat loss right?
There is a winning strategy to win Iraq, unfortunately the left AND the media will not allow us to wage it.
Pray, do tell, what is the winning strategy? Bring back conscription and send a lot more troops, against the wishes of the people of this country. Go back in time and send more troops? That might or might not work, were it possible. The US withdrawal has not begun--so are we winning, as you argued just a few months ago? Or is the situation detiorating, as any fool can now see. I wish I were wrong.I was hoping that I was wrong three years ago.
Why do right-wingers always learn the wrong lessons from history?
Im not at liberty to divulge that information.
So, you refuse to share your secret plan to win the war? Now if we lose this war it's your fault.
I cant go into that.
at no point in the history of these United States has any national election been a referendum or a mandate, or an outright statement about anything. so too with the various races dubbed mid-term elections, recently held and pooled in to some sort of consensus of the american people. our friends in the media, who serve the almighty buck, just like the rest of us, would have us think that way, but it simply is not so. let's call if a "referendumb" instead.
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