So how did these terroritsts in London get caught? Well lets see, listening in on telephone conversations, and tracking their banking records. Where have i heard of these things before?
"We don't need big brother" DNC Chairman Howard Dean (after the ny slimes exposed the NSA wire tapping program)
"Let me make one final point about sneak and peak warrants. Don't be fooled for a minute into believing that this power is needed. It's not." Senator Russ (Fools)gold
"We killed the Patriot Act" Sen. Harry Reid
14 comments:
Preliminary news accounts indicate that they got warrants. In other words, they did it legally.
And if they didnt get warrants you would be upset at their apprehension? Thats the problem with you hippies, youre more concerned with the terrorists rights than those of the innocents they intend to murder.
I am concerned with the rule of law. This case shows that illegal wiretaps are not necessary. The problem with the illegal wire taps is that they violate the FISA law, which specifically covers wire taps. The terrorists may be a threat to my life, but the Bush administration is a threat to my liberty. And with wingnuts like Ann Coulter and David Horowitz calling liberals traitors, and talking about arresting or executing them, well, let's just say I think that fascism in this country is more likely than an Islamic takeover.
Oh they're just a threat to your life?? is that all? well then that's ok i guess, but they're also a threat to my life, and i do believe that's a big piece of my civil liberties.
The wire taps do not violate the FISA laws, nor does the banking program, but that doesn't stop the ny slimes from exposing them. Also, this was london england, so there is no FISA laws there! we don't know if they had warrants, or if they even need warrants, or even what is involved in getting these warrants!
I'm thinking that it's probably a little bit different than it is over here, and since they don't have the aclu breathing down their necks i bet it's a little more lax over there.
finally, if they had waited for a warrant, and these guys had killed American citizens you and your ilk would be screaming about the ineptitude of the Bush admin. But since they caught these guys, you and your ilk are screaming about the ineptitude of the Bush admin.
Interesting.....
How the hell can you say the wire taps do not violate the FISA law? The FISA law requires warrants from the FISA court.
They were following these guys for months. Obviously there was time to get warrants.
Although they were indeed monitoring them for months there was a immediate sense of emergency that warranted the raids go down asap. I doubt they got warrants, if they were even needed. The Brits can hold suspected terrorists up to a month on no charges, which would be unacceptable to you or the press in this country.
You are getting hung up on the wrong issue. Yes the Bush admin should have gotten the warrants after the fact as is allowable by law, but it is a small problem compared to the consequences of not catching these guys. Gary unless you are a terrorist or associate with known terrorists you have nothing to fear of wiretaps or bank monitoring.
...and speaking of the press. The Brit intel community tells NOTHING to them and they accept it because even being the rags that most brit press are they know that domestic security is more important than selling a few more mags with a sensational headline.
The wire taps do not violate FISA laws, because the patriot act has made FISA obsolete.
Also, FISA can't supercede the inherent powers of the President.
We could argue this all day of course, but the Patriot Act is law, and it is current law, where as FISA is antiquated, and not effective in this new era of terrorism.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Patriot Act does not legalize wire taps without a warrant, and Bush himself once said so.
The President has no inherent power to break the law, although Nixon once said so. Our freedoms and democracy itself are at great risk under Bush than Nixon.
Give me liberty or give me death!
How were our freedoms and democracy at such great risk under Nixon? I know its an easy liberal catch phrase "Nixon was bad" but I highly doubt you or most other libs understand his Presidency at all. Can you explain your hate without a -gate?
For the record. Pres Richard M Nixon was one of the most effective yet tragic Presidents of all time. Its a shame his paranoia got the best of him but at least he was man enough to step down when caught unlike others that I will not mention.
The patriot act allows for roving wire taps, and the deal as i understand it is that the president has to keep congress informed. (which he did repeatedly).
Also the patriot act allows for monitoring of electronic communications that are not covered under FISA, for obvious reasons.
FISA is antiquated, and the administrations argument is that other acts of congress have already over ruled it, and supercede it.
Again, we can argue this all day but congress was kept up to speed on the wiretaps, including the dem. leaders and no one thought there was anything wrong until the slimes did there story.
You're obviously paranoid gary, which is fine, but you're also very wrong on this one. You're also wrong on Nixon, but i'll let donkey school you on that one.
Bush makes Nixon look good.
"We killed THE PATRIOT ACT"? Reid said that. If fucking only!
That's a great story. Waiting for more. cars 2000 ford mustang
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