Im not gonna go into a big rant defending Ozzie Guillen, esp. considering what they just did to the red birds. Im afraid.
But I would really like to know why calling someone a FAG is somehow worse than any other name. Why am I reading about it in the news. Why has he been penalized. Senior dems call our troops and Republicans worse every other day.
A black kid kills a white kid its a crime. A white kid kills a black kid its a HATE CRIME.
Explain that to me. DEFINE a LOVE crime. Crime is always hate, color aside.
Seriously, why is FAG newsworthy and something like nazi isnt? Besides poppers FAGS never gassed anyone that I know of.
I live in New York. I know FAGS and the names Im called as a straight conservative white male make FAG sound like poetry. Labels are labels. One is no worse no better than the other, so why does the press and the dems perpetuate the misnomer of said words as hateful only bcus it fits their politics.
Is it bcuz as the Diceman once said...
20 comments:
I understand what you're saying. And I admire your courage for putting the issue out there in your blog. This subject is so politically and emotionally charged that one is afraid to say anything at all for fear of being misunderstood. By either side. But I believe the discussion is important.
I wanted to take exception to your statement:
"Crime is always hate"
I wonder if you REALLY mean violent crime, or murder, or the like.
Because crime can be many, many things. Including hate. And the definition of crime is often relative and culturally based.
The crimes perpetrated by Skilling and Lay are not based on "hate" but rather greed. And if somebody goes into your house and robs your stereo, TV and jewelry, that's probably not based on "hate" either. The robber is probably stealing to get money to fund a drug habit (or for some other reason ... but not because he/she "hates" you because you are a donkey). And if he/she shoots and kills you because you caught him/her in the act, that's not because they hate you either. It's because they don't want any witnesses. If you drive under the influence of alcohol or drugs and run somebody over and kill them, it's not because you "hate" them, it's because you were drunk or high. Not to mention that driving under the influence is itself a crime. The fact that you drank a fifth of Tullamore and then got in your car and drove to the stripper bar up the street does not mean you "hate." It means you're stupid and horny. And can't get a date because you're a drunk.
SO, I do believe that some crimes are, in fact, committed specifically due to the hatred of a person's race, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation. Face it, lots of people DO hate gays and minorities. Some people hate white people. If someone is murdered BECAUSE they are gay, that, to me IS a hate crime. If someone is murdered BECAUSE they are white, then that is a hate crime as well.
Anyway, this subject is a minefield. Way too big for Anita's pea brain to encompass entirely. And my original intention in commenting was that I ONLY wanted to call you on your
"Crime is always hate"
statement.
And then find myself a bunker to hide in for the duration.
I went off on a bit larger of a tangent than in intended. But I'm still heading for the bunker.
What difference does the motivation make? If you kill someone because you hate them, because they're gay, mexican, white, etc. what difference does it make?
If you kill someone because you hate yourself do you get time off?
hate crime legislation is political pandering bullshit, and it is NEVER applied to minorities. You NEVER hear about a black on white/gay on straight hate crime. It's ALWAYS the other way around.
My brother recently had and altercation in NYC with a black man, some passers by (also black) pulled him off the guy (yes he was kicking the crap out of the guy) and told him "yo fight like a man, not that whiteboy shit" (used his wrestling skills to slam the guy on the street)
Is that a hate crime? The guy got up and my brother had to really kick the crap out of him again. Almost had to brawl with the whole group. Is that a hate crime?
Of course he didn't call the police because he's not a fag, but you get the idea........
I think motivation is entirely the point.
So anita, if i go into 7-11 to rob the place, and the clerk tries to fight me and he gets shot and killed, should i get less time because my motivation was just to rob the place?
If i call him a nigger before i rob him and then i shoot him because he tried to fight me should i get more time?
Please tell me why it makes a difference? either way the guy is dead, and i killed him.
It's all bullshit, and the only reason why it exists is politics, and the fact that liberals are soft on crime.
Barring situations similiar to a parent stealing food to feed their family or such, all crimes are based in hate, whether it be hate for the victim, for the legal system or morality in general.
or hate for themselves...
Excellent point. Im going to delete that and integrate into my point and not give you credit.
I actually did a piece on Guillen and I actually think he should be able to call whomever he wants a fag but...his explanation for it was so ignorant that I have to call him out.
Here's a snid-bit:
My problem is how Guillen excused his behavior and why. According to Ozzie he was born in a different country. Okay, so have a good deal of Americans, in fact unless you are a Native American whose family came across the Bering Strait millions of years ago, you can't really lay claim to being native. So how is this an excuse? Guillen said, "I've been here for 20 years, but people have to know that I grew up in a different country. That's not an excuse. I called the guy that name, but, no, that's the way I grew up, that's the way I've learned that language." As if the muddy water wasn't already murky, he went on to pontificate about said language imperfection by saying, "I don't have an excuse to say that, I have been here enough to know you can use so many words in the States. That's not an excuse, but I wasn't calling people that. I was calling him that." So if I read this correctly, and mind you he said it wasn't an excuse twice (which would be correct since it wasn't an excuse, it was excuses), since Guillen came from another country and he's not labeling me or you directly then it is okay. Huh? Okay let me try again. He thinks it's okay because he was calling this specific guy a homo and not anyone else, and oh, he's from another country where supposedly it's okay to give people ignorant labels. It's customary in other countries to disparage people?
By Guillen's reasoning, it would be okay for me to call him a spic because people use that term in the country that I am from...he's just wrong. A lot of black people insist that they cannot be accused of racism. Guillen sure is making a case that latinos can!
As for hate crime, it is a bad standard to set. It is too hard to define. All it does is further animosity and separate us from each other. Look, we don't have a whole lot in common with most in the political arena who wrote these laws but I have a whole lot in common with the Chinese,Black,Jewish,Puerto Rican who is working 40+ hours a week to pay his mortgage. And if one of them kills me because they hate me then they should be prosecuted for killing me not for hating me. In my opinion, violent crimes are a form of rage and rage always has some hate behind it. If there is a mathematical calculation that measures hate then, yeah, use hate laws. There isn't one though so I think it's time to get these hate crime laws off the books. It doesn't further justice so it shouldn't be part of a trial of anyone - black, white, purple, yellow or magenta. These laws are as ignorant as the type of ignorance that they are trying to quash.
First I think a crime should be a crime. All people should be protected equally and the reason for a person committing crime on another should not be considered. Having said that I want to say something about power and discrimination.. Those not in power really cannot discriminate. (doesn't make them right though) Those in power.. White Anglo Saxon type males..Are in a position to discriminate against broad swathes of people, and do. White males in America have no right to call foul and play the poor me act.
Nice fly. all these laws do is seperate us. great point!
Lefty: Those not in power really can not discriminate. ??
ok, lets say this is true (which i don't believe). Why do you pick on white males? the majority of the population is not necessarily in power. In fact i would argue that minorities have a huge amount of power in this country. especially in the democratic party. The dems need the minority vote to continue to get elected, and therefore they pander to that constituency with laws like "hate crime legislation"
Also, you say white males are in a position to discriminate against broad swathes of people, "and do"
Really? in what way? where? can you site examples of this?
"Barring situations similiar to a parent stealing food to feed their family or such, all crimes are based in hate, whether it be hate for the victim, for the legal system or morality in general."
I completely and totally disagree with you. Say I'm addicted to oxycontin. I find someone out on the street who is willing to sell it to me. I am found in possession of a controlled substance without having a prescription. I go to jail. Or get put away for some indeterminate period of time for this crime.
There is no 'hate' here ... I am not obtaining my drugs because I hate the system or that I am immoral. I am obtaining my drugs illegally because I am an addict.
Like your pal, Rush.
Oh, and just because I believe that one can distinguish "hate" as a specific motivation for a crime, I am not arguing for a different set of sentencing criteria based on that.
Well I would refer to Rhino's point, that in that scenario, you hate yourself.
Actually Anita you have a valid point, so for the sake of not arguing about the semantics of the definiton of "crime" I will clarify by saying crimes of aggresion and the like.
If I had sex with a real nasty piece wouldn't it be a hate crime against my johnson?
Everybody have a good weekend and wear your sun screen. I'm sunburned as shit from yesterday's Mets game...Lets Go Mets
ha!! gadfly, sometimes you just crack me up.
so, ok. i've made my point. carry on gentlemen (and rhinocular beings).
;)
first I agree with the premise of what was said here. I disagree with hate crimes and such...
"Also, you say white males are in a position to discriminate against broad swathes of people, "and do""
who runs the banks? who controls the money? Who determins who gets loans? Who most often sits on the bench? Runs the police department? (most often) Why are most peole in jail minorities, when whites are still a minority, and commit most of the crime? Why are most of the people put to death minorities?
Because they are inferior! Just kidding but it is funny
Or, the California Cowboy.
Hey, Valley Girls! Back East Rules! New York City! You all would stare at an issue all day 'til it bit you!
Quality of Life is the only good!
All so gifted. But look at it from a film major's point of view. If it isn't sold to people, what good is it? Emily Dickinson my a*!
If a dude or a dudette makes a boring point in a boring kitchen during a boring party, and the people don't really get it, the same people who need intelligent media product, then what is the sound of one hand clapping? No one cares? Gah!
Why can't you all just pretend to be upset by something, or pretend to be satisfied by your day, like regular Californians do, so people don't criticize you for for being a stick, or so people don't criticize you for having some rank at the bank!? Instead of actually getting distressed? And if one does get irritadedly distressed, just turn around and pretend you're in pain. Don't be real about it! Be a dog! I'll be there for you! Fake problems are better than real problems! Its not like there is some shortage of problems to deal with! There is a shortage of discussion group sanguinity, however! I mean, what the h* is one supposed to say?
Huh?
Life is sometimes like a sports game. If one strains oneself, one is standing on the sidelines. What good is that? I played. I know.
Sacrifice the body, but don't miss a shift!
And it would help if you all could write in your own exclamation points instead of having a person like me try to pick up the slack!
TRY NOT TO GET A STRAIN!
RASTAFARI!
KAM SA HAP NIDA!
DON'T BE BORING!
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