Tuesday, August 23, 2005
Donkey Rebuts Rhino
This doesnt even deserve a response but i will humor the little rhinette...Forgive me for thinking my money would be more wisely spent hunting down, capturing, and killing the terrorists in Iraq (and elsewhere), than sending little johnny jihad to school. I have no problem with rebuilding defeated nations (worked out ok with Japan)...but why dont we worry a little more actually defeating them first than appeasing the ungrateful infidels that would gladly walk into any of our bases strapped with TNT and murder our soldiers. If this is a War on Terror, and not nation building...then lets wage war on the terrorists first...give them laptops later. As far as my "only example" of Yugoslavia...I thank you for making my point for me, unless of course you intend for us to stay there indefinitely, or in your words the magical Iraqi constitution is in place. Then I guess then the sunnis, the shiites, and kurds will live happily ever after. The hatred they have for each other is real, deep rooted, and eternal ... and giving them air conditioning wont change that.
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Your money would be better spent hunting terrorists? so are you saying we can't build hospitals, and also hunt the enemy? What is your suggestion on dealing with the enemy? don't keep hunting them indefinitely? don't make an ally of the iraqi people? Are you telling me the entire population of Iraq is islamofacists? That doesn't really jibe well with the recent elections where they risked their lives to vote. or how about every time some of these police or army trainees get blown up, the next day there's another line of iraqi's looking to take thier place? and to answer your question, YES i do intend to stay in Iraq indefinitely. I don't have a timeline, i don't think we should have a timeline. we stay until we finish the job. That's my timeline. Take a look at history, if we hadn't lost our will in vietnam, if we hadn't run like little pussies from somalia, if we had responded to the repeated attacks from these animals (wtc '92, us embassies, uss cole etc.) maybe we could have prevented 9/11. I haven't forgotten that we were attacked, i haven't lost my will. I think my $ is worth it to do what my president thinks needs to be done to finish the job.
Im not saying we cant walk and chew gum at the same time...Im saying we shouldnt. Did we implement the Marshall Plan prior to the fall of Berlin or build military bases on Nippon prior to dropping Little Boy and Fat Man. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! All Im saying silly rhino is that Empires are for Kids.
Hey, are we giving out air conditioning to the people of Iraq because I know that I need central air!?! Anyway, if it is a war on terror then we are going about it in the wrong way...We aren't coddling the Afghan-peeps so indulgently...Why so in Iraq? The worst part about it is the constitution has only been agreed upon in principal by two sides (shiites & kurds)so what's the fuss. Where are those sunny sunnis? They must be off frolicking in the oil fields...and then blowing them up! They are too busy to try and build a government...In the end whether we stay and see this thing through or we leave, these people will revert back to gangland/tribal warfare. Irag needs a fourth faction...possibly we can introduce violent space aliens into the mix in Iraq...The big three will start working together to stomp out this fourth faction and eventually they'll end up w/a common ground. To all those who take me seriously, thanks...This is the only possible solution to the problem...Let's go find Mork and drop him off.
My question to both nutz, and donkey, is why u both believe that once we leave the country its going to hell? what makes u think this? where are u getting this idea? I saw millions of Iraqi's risking their lives to elect a government! I don't think they would have done that if they wanted to revert to a lawless society at the very first opportunity. You guys need to stop watching the nightly news, open your eyes. read my first comments agian and ask yourself if things were as bad as you are saying, would these people be risking thier lives? By the way, we are helping in afghanistan, the difference is that they still have a central government, and it's not on us to take care of every little detail. Check out the DOD website, we're doing a great job over there too.
Hey donkey, the war against Iraq is over! maybe you didn't get the memo, we beat sadamms army, we disbanded sadamms army, we're done with our war against Iraq, now we're rebuilding the country, like the marshall plan in europe. Our fight is no longer against the Iraqi's, it is against the terrorists who are trying to stop us from rebuilding. should we put everything on hold until we kill everyone who hates us? For that matter, why are we going to build anything on the world trade center site? we haven't captured bin laden yet, maybe we should wait????
Lemme see where did I get the idea? Lemme see...
"We will campaign...to tell both Sunnis and Shiites to reject the constitution, which has elements that will lead to the break up of Iraq and civil war" said Soha Allawi, a Sunni member of the drafting committee or maybe "If it passes there will be an uprising in the streets" said Sunni negotiator Saleh al-Mutlak
Now you are the Jackass..why dont you re-read my posts/ comments. I never said things were going poorly in Iraq/Afganistan...I was making a counterpoint (a brilliant counterpoint I might add) to your post on the media's coverage, it's unfortunate that your thinking is so linear and are blinded by anything not within your trainwreck of thought. Not everything is as black and white as the ny times that you wipe your ass with.
So now you're getting your info from Soha Allawi???? who the F is Soha Allawi???? did he scare the little baby jackass with his fiery talk? are you afraid of the "mother of all battles" too? I'm sure Soha Allawi won't be found hiding in a spider hole, because he's a big bad man! Hey donkey fightin is for men, get to fightin or stick with mets comments. If you want to be scared of Soha Allawi go ahead, i'm sticking with the greatest fighting force in the world, and i'm betting that we can kick the s**t out of the big bad Soha Allawi. maybe u and pnutz can move to france and eat some cheese!
I do like cheese...perhaps you would like to eat some off my...wait, I'll stop there. I wasn't fighting w/you brother. In fact I agree that we are the greatest fighting force that the world has ever seen and we could kick the crap out of anyone,anywhere, at any time. But that's not the point here...This stuff between the Sunnis & Shiites has been going on way before America even existed. If you think that these people are all of a sudden enlightened because they want to vote then you are dead wrong. They vote because they don't want either of the other sides to get an upperhand. And what else are they doing anyway? Danger is danger. Were their lives any more or less dangerous before? These people have grown up surrounded by atrocities. Don't forget that or you forget why the Bin Laden's of the world hates us in the first place. They are jealous and bitter at everything we have...Don't fight w/me...Remember the fight was w/ them because they brought their world into our's...If they want the Dark Ages again, I say we give it to them...
Of course they vote so the other side doesn't get the other hand, that's why we vote too. However, i believe these people desire freedom. maybe i'm an idealist, but i don't think so. I don't believe in giving them the dark ages, i believe in nation building.Thats what we're doing there. It worked in Japan, we changed their whole way of life, we changed the whole caste system, it wasn't easy, it took many years, but they haven't attacked pearl harbor since. We can do it again. If you don't believe in what we're doing, that's fine, but i believe in it, i believed in it before we went in, and i still do now. we're accomplishing great things. If we don't lose our nerve, ala vietnam, we'll have another democracy in that region. One less breeding ground for terrorists, and an example of what the other countries can be. Rome wasn't built in a day!
speaking of the mets...2 1/2 games out of wild card baby!
Japan didnt attack us again because we outlawed their military, and brought them under our bulletproof umbrella...yet we are now arming and training a new iraqi army...last time I checked that didnt work out to well with the mujahideen in afghanistan.
Perhaps you are right and I hope you are...but I don't agree that's why we were there in the first place. According to our leaders, we are going to go wherever there are terrorist...It wasn't to spread freedom but to squash our enemies. If freedom is what comes out of this, it will be a great day for the world. Oh, and it's not the Iraqi people in general that I doubt or that we could rebuild a nation (like we did in Japan) but there neighbors want nothing to do w/freedom and they seem to be trying to put it down (to put it politely). If Iraq is to be rebuilt then we must be region re-builders not nation builders. So let's be clear, Japan is an island that was willing to rebuild and I am not so sure that's the case here. Can it be done? Will it be done? And most importantly, should it be done w/our troops? These are questions we should all ask...I hope it all plays out like you think it will but I think it would be wrong to accuse anyone of anything for being pessimistic...Give me more than people voting to prove that they are a willing participant in freedom...Remeber that I am just asking and not attacking you.
pnutz, i have cited examples already, but i will give you one more, These people are dying in far greater numbers than us to get the ship righted. They haven't given up. I agree that the neighborhood is a tough one, and if i was a leader of Iran or Syria i would be fighting to keep the U.S. from succeeding too. These are all corrupt leaders, they are getting wealthy, and keeping power through force. A democratic Iraq, in my opinion, could cause a domino effect. It only takes one domino and then the whole thing topples over. What if Iraq is the domino? And if its not, i have no problem with going to Iran next! I think it's worth it. By the way, I know the official line is we're not nation building, but that's what we're doing. I'm not pessismistic, because i know we're kicking ass and taking names over there, i know that if we don't let jane fonda and cindy sheehan break our will, we will achieve complete victory. It's not easy, there will be setbacks, that's the nature of the beast. We can't quit, we can't put a timeline on it.
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