very interesting. it IS kind of scary to consider government taking over medicine. however, government is ALREADY deeply embedded in medicine from funding research and development to, as the man says, medicare (and now medicaid). not to mention the medicine provided to veterans via the VA system.
to give the man a break and not attack him on his fearmongering rhetoric, i will only say that he was speaking in another day and and in another age. life (and medicine) were far simpler then. disease, even, was far simpler then, if only because so little was known about it. if you got cancer, hey, you were gonna die, fuggetaboudit, rich or poor, start saying your goodbyes and making your amends whether you had healthcare or not.
but that's not the way it is any more. now we have 50-odd million people without healthcare at a time when it is accepted wisdom is that early detection is pretty much the ONLY key to a long-term survival/remission. For those 50-odd-million people, regular checkups yielding an early diagnosis is very simply and very often just not an option. women forego their mamograms and men forego their prostate cancer tests and so on. and then, when they do receive the news of more advanced cancer that has spread or had a heart attack because of high blood pressure or high cholesterol that went undetected, or some other debilitating, potentially fatal disease, they can (and likely will) lose all their assets due to the extraordinarily high costs of treatment. you tell me, how much does a quadruple by-pass surgery cost?
obama's plan, as i understand it, it simply to allow a "public option" ... i'm being oversimplistic i'm sure. and i'm actually hoping that is all he wants to provide. i personally would prefer that everyone would be able to afford/obtain private insurance. i don't think the government should be in the business of health care (or running car companies or banks). but the situation on the ground doesn't allow for "if only" thinking.
i understand the financial weight health insurance places on small businesses. i know that, in order to keep my own policy (not a individual policy, but a company policy), i am required to offer every single person who lands on my payroll, for however long or short a time he or she works for me, the option to enroll in my company policy. i've been very lucky so far in that everyone who has worked for me has either been married or has a "freelance" policy of their own. also, as a business owner, i have to pay into, for myself, disability and unemployment, but should i become disabled or my business goes down the tubes completely, i will not be able to claim either disability or unemployment because i am the "owner." sorry to digress.
but more on point, and in principal, i think having a public option for people who have no insurance is sound policy. even sound financial policy.
1. If it was truly about the uninsured, then one would think that would be the focus of any reform, which it isnt.
2. Everyone is the US has access to health care right now, its illegal for hospitals to turn away any patients.
3. The 50 million number is a red herring, I for example like millions refused health care in my early 20's so as to have more cash to spend on preventive medicines like beer, hookers, and gambling.
4. Socialized medicine all but erases the field of preventive medicine.
5. It wont save money.
6. Its about control. Period. Just like the energy bill will do nothing to fix climate change, and just like the stimulus bill is not stimulating or creating jobs.
7. Obama hates the America as we knew it, and why hes trying to change it so drastically. You dont paint your house a different color unless you didnt like the last one.
On another note, Ive spent the last 6 years listening to libs cry over and over and over again about W's 14 month "RUSH" to war, yet this guy and the dems keep trying to jam major legislation that will affect generations of Americans lifes down our throats in the dead of friday night without actually reading the bills or making it available to the public (as promised) before the vote and not a word is being said.
Everyone doesn't have access to health care. Sure, if I have a heart attack on the street I will be taken to a hospital and treated. But I can't, as Anita points out, walk in and get an examination to see if I have heart trouble. My sister worked for 10 years at a job that didn't offer health insurance for her or her son, and I know that was a hardship for her.
Everyone should have access to full healthcare. Every other major industrialized power offers that. The best way to get there is open to debate.
But if you don't recognize there's a problem, in health care or global warming, then the obvious solution is to do nothing. DO NOTHING: there's a platform for the Republicans. No wonder you keep losing elections.
anita are you kidding? seriously are you kidding with the "public option" thing?
That's like saying there's a public option in education. Which there is by the way. IF you can afford to pay your property taxes AND private school for your children then you have the option. You see we will ALL be taxed for the "public option" whether we have private insurance or not.
Figure it out anita your smarter than that.
gary there may indeed be a problem with healthcare but it's not a catastrophe and can be easily fixed within the free market but i won't bother trying to explain it to you because unlike anita you're NOT smarter than that and you won't figure it out.
you're right. it isn't only about the uninsured. it's also about the waste and fraud and redundancy that is happening throughout the entire system (not that there won't be waste and fraud in another system, but if we cut the useless middleman out, the insurance companies, we'd all be better off, in my humble opinion.)
and even though you rolled the dice and chose to save a few bucks by not having health insurance when you were a young stud, if you ended up in a drunk driving accident and landed in the hospital with a broken back and para or quadraplegic, who was gonna pay for your wheel chair? who would you be expecting to pay for your wheel chair? or the other hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical expenses you would be incurring?
riddle me that one el donkeyhue, el guapo gordo. or maybe you'd rather head up to canada, parlez vous francaise? i hope so. for your sake.
rhino, we're all paying for it already ... the hospitals and doctors and pharmacies all pad their bills to cover the uninsured. let's just bring that all out into the open.
gary what always stops the free market? Since i know you don't know the answer i'll tell you. GOVERNMENT is stopping them.
Anita, to say that the insurance companies are the useless middleman shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
finally as i've said many times. we don't have a perfect health care system in this country but it is the best in the world.
do you two really believe it's a good idea to copy a system that is inferior to the one we already have? seriously? it's the same argument i gave to gary about global warming. even if there was a problem doing something just to do something makes no sense at all.
Ok bullshit flag time. Now you say its about waste, yet Rhino points out how ineffiecient govt can be and you shrug it off as just the small stuff while expecting them to do better with the serious stuff. You admit it not about the uninsure but you go along with it anyways even though your previous comments indicate you dont support it. Dont let me down Anita, you I have faith in. Call your peeps out as me and Rhino did to Bush and the GOP when they were wrong. They pass stimulas bills they admit wont stimulate, they pass climate bills they admit wont affect climate. Do you want to go down this road with the best health care in world?
Restore my faith that there some honest dems left that arent power hungry socialist drones like Gary. Im not seeing it on the streets and Im not seeing it in the media.
i said it isn't "ONLY" about the uninsured. it's about a lot of things, as you said, it is a very complex issue.
when rhino refers to the u.s. having the best "health care" i think what he means is that we have the best doctors, the best medical schools, the best techology, and so on. we also probably have the best hospitals as well, but since they are mostly affiliated with the best medical schools and research institutions where you find the best doctors, the chances are that if you live in the new york city metropolitan area or in the proximity of other areas where medical research and training abounds, such as in other areas near Duke University or U. Penn, or U. Davis in California your chances of having access to that technology will be greater. it just ain't gonna happen in many other parts of the country unless you are able, physically and financially, to travel.
that being said, just because strawberry shortcake is on the menu, doesn't mean everybody gets to get a slice. if you don't have coverage, you are not going to get "the best healthcare in the world."
also, yes, i do not understand why this proposal is being pushed so hard with so little scrutiny. it's really baffling. if it's about some campaign promise then that totally sucks. at least hillary convened hundreds of experts and got opinions from all sides when she was doing her healthcare task force. she was being meticulous. which is how they should be now, particuarly with so much at stake. but of course hillary was thrown off the bus.
and one last point, to rhinoculous. i would greatly appreciate it, as i imagine Gary would as well, if you didn't go into attack mode and call someone and idiot or stupid every time they disagree with you. just stop it and maybe you'll end up having more substantive discussions here. fact is that YOU do NOT know IT ALL. nor does donkeyhue or gary or getlivayte.
2. when i say gary is stupid it's because i truly believe that he is and therefore he is unable to understand any of these discussions past the surface of his lib talking points.
3. i actually do know it all
4. donkey and i have told you why they're pushing this agenda and it's about control and power.
5. you're wrong about my position on health care.
overall we have the best health care system in the world. No, i don't get to see the same doctors that Obama or some movie stars get to see, and no people without health insurance don't get to see the same doctors that i get to see (i haven't been to a doctor in at least 15yrs but thats neither here nor there) However overall we have the best system in the world. not just the best doctors but also the best care in general for everyone. there are some people who don't have insurance and can't pay for it. that's unfortunate but the best way to fix that is to lower costs, not to make it more expensive and less effective for everyone.
we need less regulations on insurance companies and we need tort reform and caps on malpractice to begin with. that would go a long way towards reducing the costs.
the financial industry is and has always been one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country. the financial system breakdown was related directly to the housing market crash which was caused by over regulation.
we've been over this before.
I don't mind giving lessons but it's upsetting that i have to reteach the same lessons over and over again.
criminals commit crimes no matter the law. madoff is a criminal.
it wasn't a lack of rules in that case. the guy didn't follow the rules. it's kind of like gun control. it really only affects the people who will follow the rules.
seriousl anita just stay down. you're out of your element here and you're not going to win.
the SEC was aware that something was wrong with what Madoff did, yet they chose to ignore it. enough said.
in terms of the regulations of the financial markets and their impact on the recent meltdown, years and years ago, there were calls by many (look up Brooksley Born) to increase regulation on derivatives such as mortgage backed securities. Greenspan and Rubin chose to ignore those warnings. And they fired Brooksley Born in the process for having waved the flag that something was not right.
the financial meltdown is a complex thing kicked off by the bursting of the real estate bubble, but it was a bubble resulting in part from the oodles of money people were making on mortgage backed securities and the entities (shifty mortgage brokers pushing sub-prime loans to anyone who would take one, and pushing them on people who qualified for prime loans as well.)
for what it's worth, little rhino, i may not follow your little set of issues quite as closely as you do; however, i would bet you a large sum of money that i am not only smarter than you but far better educated as well.
If you're so damn smart why do u keep trying to change the subject? We get it Madoff is a bad guy. Excellent observation.
Now back on point.
We get that you are in favor of socialized medical care, but do you support this medical care bill as is?
If yes, considering that the economic and medical consensus is it won't work, what do you know that they don't which leads you to this conclusion.
Rhino and I oppose this bill and keep pointing out its flaws, neither you, Gary, Obama or any other supporters have explained why this bill will work, bur rather the emotion of why we need the bill don't make perfect of the good bullshit.
This is a bad bill. Period. You've said nothing to convince me otherwise and doubt you are capable of doing so.
That being said, I agree Rhino is stoopid. Can't recall him losing an argument to anyone but me, but stoopid he is. Point conceded.
i can't (and i doubt if you can either) argue the exact merits nor all the specifics of the bill since i (as well as, i'm sure, you and the majority of members of congress) have not read it in its entirety.
that being said, when i asked rhino to stop name-calling because it would make for a more substantive conversation, he chose to deny that he name calls and then he, guess what, decided to try to humiliate me by name calling.
i am no longer the shriveling flower on the sidelines and i will say what i will and not say what i will not.
rhino, in addition to not being as smart as he thinks he is, is also a hypocrite and a child.
He's short and Mexican too, but that's besides the point.
I know enough to know that this bill is a disaster. Will result in longer lines for more expensive and inferior medical care. I know that like most lib plans, it will hurt the poor, the elderly, and minorities the most.
You on the other hand know nothing. You are emotional so you support a bill that you know won't work bcuz it makes you feel better.
Friendly advice, you can't complain about name calling and then proceed to call names. It makes your argument look weak. If you're going to take the high road, take it and stick to it. To do otherwise illustrates a frustration in your own lack of convictions.
what you read as my lack of convictions is my willingness to seek out all sides of the situation. unlike you, i don't look only to news sources and pundits that back up my own prejudices. i am open to other points of view.
i make no formal argument for or againt one strategy or another because i figure i'm just a minnow in the far larger ocean and my opinion really, in the end, does not matter in the least. the open minded curious person that i am, i tried many times to give you two the benefit of the doubt. i think you often make valid points upon which i agree. when i chose not to agree, you say i become "emotional" ... isn't that what they were charging sonya sotomayor with being and therefore not qualified to be on the supreme court. i'm not comparing myself to her, but it's interesting what men will do to diminish a woman's right to speak her mind.
i have convictions that i stick to in my life and they have nothing to do with you and are none of your business. this is a blog, not a life manifesto. although, it does seem that it is for you. which is fine because it's your blog.
and finally, i have not once said that i feel that think this health care bill is good. not once. i even said it's crazy that they are pushing it though like this.
i acknowledge that there is a huge problem with regard to the entire healthcare system in our country. there has to be a way to both rein in costs and provide coverage for the uninsured.
the poor have insurance. the solidly middle class have insurance. the people who don't have insurance are those inbetweeners, the ones who make enough to live without public assistance yet not enough to pay for health coverage.
that's how i see it. don't ask me for what my "conviction" is other than that those people desparately need health care coverage. i am not a policy wonk and don't know the answer. and i'm not embarrassed to say that i don't have the answer. and i don't think you or ronald reagan have the answer either.
finally, you guys take the low road far more often then me, or gary. so you can't pull that one out of your hat any more.
so anita what name did i call you besides....anita?
anyway i seriously don't think you understand the difference between regulation and enforcement.
all the regulations in the world wouldn't have stopped madoff.
and it was regulation that caused the housing bubble. It was regulation that CREATED sub prime loans. it was regulation the gave birth to these shady mortgage brokers.
you're more educated than me? definitely. you're more intelligent than me? probably. you're smarter than me? clearly thats not the case.
I'm all about the low road. Unlike you, I don't claim otherwise or complain when others join me in the game of muck.
Get a Midol from Gary and relax, I wasn't referencing your femininity when I questioned your emotional state, I was attacking your ideology. Just as I would Obama and the rest of the feel good Dems. I know from your own words you have probus with this bill and that makes your defense of it all the more befuddling.
This is a bad bill and noone is even denying that but rather arguing the need for any bill because its the "right" thing to do. For fucks sake Ted Kennedy wrote in Newsweek that this bill is crap but we should pass it anyway and make changes latter. Its insanity.
23 comments:
very interesting. it IS kind of scary to consider government taking over medicine. however, government is ALREADY deeply embedded in medicine from funding research and development to, as the man says, medicare (and now medicaid). not to mention the medicine provided to veterans via the VA system.
to give the man a break and not attack him on his fearmongering rhetoric, i will only say that he was speaking in another day and and in another age. life (and medicine) were far simpler then. disease, even, was far simpler then, if only because so little was known about it. if you got cancer, hey, you were gonna die, fuggetaboudit, rich or poor, start saying your goodbyes and making your amends whether you had healthcare or not.
but that's not the way it is any more. now we have 50-odd million people without healthcare at a time when it is accepted wisdom is that early detection is pretty much the ONLY key to a long-term survival/remission. For those 50-odd-million people, regular checkups yielding an early diagnosis is very simply and very often just not an option. women forego their mamograms and men forego their prostate cancer tests and so on. and then, when they do receive the news of more advanced cancer that has spread or had a heart attack because of high blood pressure or high cholesterol that went undetected, or some other debilitating, potentially fatal disease, they can (and likely will) lose all their assets due to the extraordinarily high costs of treatment. you tell me, how much does a quadruple by-pass surgery cost?
obama's plan, as i understand it, it simply to allow a "public option" ... i'm being oversimplistic i'm sure. and i'm actually hoping that is all he wants to provide. i personally would prefer that everyone would be able to afford/obtain private insurance. i don't think the government should be in the business of health care (or running car companies or banks). but the situation on the ground doesn't allow for "if only" thinking.
i understand the financial weight health insurance places on small businesses. i know that, in order to keep my own policy (not a individual policy, but a company policy), i am required to offer every single person who lands on my payroll, for however long or short a time he or she works for me, the option to enroll in my company policy. i've been very lucky so far in that everyone who has worked for me has either been married or has a "freelance" policy of their own. also, as a business owner, i have to pay into, for myself, disability and unemployment, but should i become disabled or my business goes down the tubes completely, i will not be able to claim either disability or unemployment because i am the "owner." sorry to digress.
but more on point, and in principal, i think having a public option for people who have no insurance is sound policy. even sound financial policy.
but then again, the devil is in the details.
1. If it was truly about the uninsured, then one would think that would be the focus of any reform, which it isnt.
2. Everyone is the US has access to health care right now, its illegal for hospitals to turn away any patients.
3. The 50 million number is a red herring, I for example like millions refused health care in my early 20's so as to have more cash to spend on preventive medicines like beer, hookers, and gambling.
4. Socialized medicine all but erases the field of preventive medicine.
5. It wont save money.
6. Its about control. Period. Just like the energy bill will do nothing to fix climate change, and just like the stimulus bill is not stimulating or creating jobs.
7. Obama hates the America as we knew it, and why hes trying to change it so drastically. You dont paint your house a different color unless you didnt like the last one.
Excellent article in IBD says it better than I...
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=332723342557746
On another note, Ive spent the last 6 years listening to libs cry over and over and over again about W's 14 month "RUSH" to war, yet this guy and the dems keep trying to jam major legislation that will affect generations of Americans lifes down our throats in the dead of friday night without actually reading the bills or making it available to the public (as promised) before the vote and not a word is being said.
Why is that?
Everyone doesn't have access to health care. Sure, if I have a heart attack on the street I will be taken to a hospital and treated. But I can't, as Anita points out, walk in and get an examination to see if I have heart trouble. My sister worked for 10 years at a job that didn't offer health insurance for her or her son, and I know that was a hardship for her.
Everyone should have access to full healthcare. Every other major industrialized power offers that. The best way to get there is open to debate.
But if you don't recognize there's a problem, in health care or global warming, then the obvious solution is to do nothing. DO NOTHING: there's a platform for the Republicans. No wonder you keep losing elections.
And I like Reagan better in that monkey movie.
anita are you kidding? seriously are you kidding with the "public option" thing?
That's like saying there's a public option in education. Which there is by the way. IF you can afford to pay your property taxes AND private school for your children then you have the option. You see we will ALL be taxed for the "public option" whether we have private insurance or not.
Figure it out anita your smarter than that.
gary there may indeed be a problem with healthcare but it's not a catastrophe and can be easily fixed within the free market but i won't bother trying to explain it to you because unlike anita you're NOT smarter than that and you won't figure it out.
you're right. it isn't only about the uninsured. it's also about the waste and fraud and redundancy that is happening throughout the entire system (not that there won't be waste and fraud in another system, but if we cut the useless middleman out, the insurance companies, we'd all be better off, in my humble opinion.)
and even though you rolled the dice and chose to save a few bucks by not having health insurance when you were a young stud, if you ended up in a drunk driving accident and landed in the hospital with a broken back and para or quadraplegic, who was gonna pay for your wheel chair? who would you be expecting to pay for your wheel chair? or the other hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical expenses you would be incurring?
riddle me that one el donkeyhue, el guapo gordo. or maybe you'd rather head up to canada, parlez vous francaise? i hope so. for your sake.
rhino, we're all paying for it already ... the hospitals and doctors and pharmacies all pad their bills to cover the uninsured. let's just bring that all out into the open.
If it can be easily fixed "within the free market" what exactly has been stopping them?
gary what always stops the free market?
Since i know you don't know the answer i'll tell you. GOVERNMENT is stopping them.
Anita, to say that the insurance companies are the useless middleman shows that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
finally as i've said many times. we don't have a perfect health care system in this country but it is the best in the world.
do you two really believe it's a good idea to copy a system that is inferior to the one we already have? seriously? it's the same argument i gave to gary about global warming. even if there was a problem doing something just to do something makes no sense at all.
Ok bullshit flag time. Now you say its about waste, yet Rhino points out how ineffiecient govt can be and you shrug it off as just the small stuff while expecting them to do better with the serious stuff. You admit it not about the uninsure but you go along with it anyways even though your previous comments indicate you dont support it. Dont let me down Anita, you I have faith in. Call your peeps out as me and Rhino did to Bush and the GOP when they were wrong. They pass stimulas bills they admit wont stimulate, they pass climate bills they admit wont affect climate. Do you want to go down this road with the best health care in world?
Restore my faith that there some honest dems left that arent power hungry socialist drones like Gary. Im not seeing it on the streets and Im not seeing it in the media.
i said it isn't "ONLY" about the uninsured. it's about a lot of things, as you said, it is a very complex issue.
when rhino refers to the u.s. having the best "health care" i think what he means is that we have the best doctors, the best medical schools, the best techology, and so on. we also probably have the best hospitals as well, but since they are mostly affiliated with the best medical schools and research institutions where you find the best doctors, the chances are that if you live in the new york city metropolitan area or in the proximity of other areas where medical research and training abounds, such as in other areas near Duke University or U. Penn, or U. Davis in California your chances of having access to that technology will be greater. it just ain't gonna happen in many other parts of the country unless you are able, physically and financially, to travel.
that being said, just because strawberry shortcake is on the menu, doesn't mean everybody gets to get a slice. if you don't have coverage, you are not going to get "the best healthcare in the world."
also, yes, i do not understand why this proposal is being pushed so hard with so little scrutiny. it's really baffling. if it's about some campaign promise then that totally sucks. at least hillary convened hundreds of experts and got opinions from all sides when she was doing her healthcare task force. she was being meticulous. which is how they should be now, particuarly with so much at stake. but of course hillary was thrown off the bus.
and one last point, to rhinoculous. i would greatly appreciate it, as i imagine Gary would as well, if you didn't go into attack mode and call someone and idiot or stupid every time they disagree with you. just stop it and maybe you'll end up having more substantive discussions here. fact is that YOU do NOT know IT ALL. nor does donkeyhue or gary or getlivayte.
anita i'm not in attack mode, and
1. i didn't call you an idiot or stupid.
2. when i say gary is stupid it's because i truly believe that he is and therefore he is unable to understand any of these discussions past the surface of his lib talking points.
3. i actually do know it all
4. donkey and i have told you why they're pushing this agenda and it's about control and power.
5. you're wrong about my position on health care.
overall we have the best health care system in the world. No, i don't get to see the same doctors that Obama or some movie stars get to see, and no people without health insurance don't get to see the same doctors that i get to see (i haven't been to a doctor in at least 15yrs but thats neither here nor there)
However overall we have the best system in the world. not just the best doctors but also the best care in general for everyone. there are some people who don't have insurance and can't pay for it. that's unfortunate but the best way to fix that is to lower costs, not to make it more expensive and less effective for everyone.
we need less regulations on insurance companies and we need tort reform and caps on malpractice to begin with. that would go a long way towards reducing the costs.
less regulations on insurance companies?????
as if less regulation on our financial systems did us a whole lot of good.
it's THAT point where i put up the bullshit flag.
anita, you disappoint me.
the financial industry is and has always been one of the most heavily regulated industries in the country. the financial system breakdown was related directly to the housing market crash which was caused by over regulation.
we've been over this before.
I don't mind giving lessons but it's upsetting that i have to reteach the same lessons over and over again.
they regulated madoff just fine.
is that your big comeback?
madoff?
criminals commit crimes no matter the law. madoff is a criminal.
it wasn't a lack of rules in that case. the guy didn't follow the rules. it's kind of like gun control. it really only affects the people who will follow the rules.
seriousl anita just stay down. you're out of your element here and you're not going to win.
the SEC was aware that something was wrong with what Madoff did, yet they chose to ignore it. enough said.
in terms of the regulations of the financial markets and their impact on the recent meltdown, years and years ago, there were calls by many (look up Brooksley Born) to increase regulation on derivatives such as mortgage backed securities. Greenspan and Rubin chose to ignore those warnings. And they fired Brooksley Born in the process for having waved the flag that something was not right.
the financial meltdown is a complex thing kicked off by the bursting of the real estate bubble, but it was a bubble resulting in part from the oodles of money people were making on mortgage backed securities and the entities (shifty mortgage brokers pushing sub-prime loans to anyone who would take one, and pushing them on people who qualified for prime loans as well.)
for what it's worth, little rhino, i may not follow your little set of issues quite as closely as you do; however, i would bet you a large sum of money that i am not only smarter than you but far better educated as well.
If you're so damn smart why do u keep trying to change the subject? We get it Madoff is a bad guy. Excellent observation.
Now back on point.
We get that you are in favor of socialized medical care, but do you support this medical care bill as is?
If yes, considering that the economic and medical consensus is it won't work, what do you know that they don't which leads you to this conclusion.
Rhino and I oppose this bill and keep pointing out its flaws, neither you, Gary, Obama or any other supporters have explained why this bill will work, bur rather the emotion of why we need the bill don't make perfect of the good bullshit.
This is a bad bill. Period. You've said nothing to convince me otherwise and doubt you are capable of doing so.
That being said, I agree Rhino is stoopid. Can't recall him losing an argument to anyone but me, but stoopid he is. Point conceded.
i can't (and i doubt if you can either) argue the exact merits nor all the specifics of the bill since i (as well as, i'm sure, you and the majority of members of congress) have not read it in its entirety.
that being said, when i asked rhino to stop name-calling because it would make for a more substantive conversation, he chose to deny that he name calls and then he, guess what, decided to try to humiliate me by name calling.
i am no longer the shriveling flower on the sidelines and i will say what i will and not say what i will not.
rhino, in addition to not being as smart as he thinks he is, is also a hypocrite and a child.
He's short and Mexican too, but that's besides the point.
I know enough to know that this bill is a disaster. Will result in longer lines for more expensive and inferior medical care. I know that like most lib plans, it will hurt the poor, the elderly, and minorities the most.
You on the other hand know nothing. You are emotional so you support a bill that you know won't work bcuz it makes you feel better.
Friendly advice, you can't complain about name calling and then proceed to call names. It makes your argument look weak. If you're going to take the high road, take it and stick to it. To do otherwise illustrates a frustration in your own lack of convictions.
what you read as my lack of convictions is my willingness to seek out all sides of the situation. unlike you, i don't look only to news sources and pundits that back up my own prejudices. i am open to other points of view.
i make no formal argument for or againt one strategy or another because i figure i'm just a minnow in the far larger ocean and my opinion really, in the end, does not matter in the least. the open minded curious person that i am, i tried many times to give you two the benefit of the doubt. i think you often make valid points upon which i agree. when i chose not to agree, you say i become "emotional" ... isn't that what they were charging sonya sotomayor with being and therefore not qualified to be on the supreme court. i'm not comparing myself to her, but it's interesting what men will do to diminish a woman's right to speak her mind.
i have convictions that i stick to in my life and they have nothing to do with you and are none of your business. this is a blog, not a life manifesto. although, it does seem that it is for you. which is fine because it's your blog.
and finally, i have not once said that i feel that think this health care bill is good. not once. i even said it's crazy that they are pushing it though like this.
i acknowledge that there is a huge problem with regard to the entire healthcare system in our country. there has to be a way to both rein in costs and provide coverage for the uninsured.
the poor have insurance. the solidly middle class have insurance. the people who don't have insurance are those inbetweeners, the ones who make enough to live without public assistance yet not enough to pay for health coverage.
that's how i see it. don't ask me for what my "conviction" is other than that those people desparately need health care coverage. i am not a policy wonk and don't know the answer. and i'm not embarrassed to say that i don't have the answer. and i don't think you or ronald reagan have the answer either.
finally, you guys take the low road far more often then me, or gary. so you can't pull that one out of your hat any more.
interesting....
so anita what name did i call you besides....anita?
anyway i seriously don't think you understand the difference between regulation and enforcement.
all the regulations in the world wouldn't have stopped madoff.
and it was regulation that caused the housing bubble. It was regulation that CREATED sub prime loans. it was regulation the gave birth to these shady mortgage brokers.
you're more educated than me? definitely.
you're more intelligent than me? probably.
you're smarter than me? clearly thats not the case.
I'm all about the low road. Unlike you, I don't claim otherwise or complain when others join me in the game of muck.
Get a Midol from Gary and relax, I wasn't referencing your femininity when I questioned your emotional state, I was attacking your ideology. Just as I would Obama and the rest of the feel good Dems. I know from your own words you have probus with this bill and that makes your defense of it all the more befuddling.
This is a bad bill and noone is even denying that but rather arguing the need for any bill because its the "right" thing to do. For fucks sake Ted Kennedy wrote in Newsweek that this bill is crap but we should pass it anyway and make changes latter. Its insanity.
Now go make me a sandwich. :)
very interesting.It is a kind of scary to consider government taking over medicine.
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Julie
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