I think this is a case of Obama listening to the Generals. I don't know if releasing the photos would actually endanger the troops. The previous photos didn't seem to, but then I haven't seen the new photos.
What have we learned about torture during the Bush years?
1)People were tortured. Not every technique might rise to the level of torture but when you put them all together, clearly it's torture. What do you think these photos show? Probably not waterboarding.
2) Most of the info obtained was through standard FBI-style non-abusive interrogation. Torture revealed at most a few scraps of info, combined with a mass of phony information.
3) Phony info was at least in part the point of the torture. Cheney wanted info linking al Qaeda to Iraq.
4) Most conservatives (there are a few honorable exceptions) really don't have a problem with torture.
5) Conservative rhetoric about upholding the law is basically bullshit.
6) Conservative are concerned about the photos, not what is in the photos, which is evidence of criminal activity.
7) Bush and Cheney and the whole gang were a disgrace to this country.
we're walking that fine line on the issue of accountability again.
are the individuals who were given the orders by their superiors to inflict torture going to be one ones to take the fall (again) while the perpetrators of the torture (the administration and cheney in particular) go back to their comfortable "civilian" life of cocktail parties and golf outings and planning multi-million dollar presidential "libraries / monuments" never to look back again on the devastation they caused?
i agree with gary that obama is listening to the generals. i don't see this as a flip flop. it may well TURN INTO major flip flop, but only time will tell on that one.
my sense is that he probably will cave in the end, unfortunately.
i never put obama on a pedestal, quite to the contrary. i've always been skeptical of him on any number of issues. he is, to a certain extent, your typical corporate politician, although he just happens to be whole lot better at it than all his peers, his magnificent marketing machine a major case in point.
that said, he certainly was the far better choice than the other guy who, issues aside, was clearly exhibiting symptoms of early alzheimer's disease and whose malignant melanoma would have likely ended his term early and thus leaving the nation with an under-educated and incurious hack of a vice president who would have become nothing but a pawn to the lunatic fringe of your party.
You libs really are a hateful intolerant bunch of cunts. You bring up McCains health without acknowledging that we have a black smoker in the office. He could drop any day, and leave us with Biden.
You can continue lying to us but you can't lie to yourself.
I was wondering who would be the first to drag this discussion down into the gutter. Donkey wins.
It looks like some of the torture photos may have been leaked in 2006: http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/15/leaked-torture-photos-published-in-2006-may-be-among-photographs-obama-administration-shielding/
I am sure that you will be more shocked by the fact that the photos were leaked than by what is in them.
and health, in my opinion, is always fair game. and no, obama shouldn't smoke, and yeah, biden's probably gonna get a heart attack or another aneurysm before the first term is over.
10 comments:
Pelosi lies ... plausible.
CIA lies . . . plausible.
Cheney lies . . . a given.
I think this is a case of Obama listening to the Generals. I don't know if releasing the photos would actually endanger the troops. The previous photos didn't seem to, but then I haven't seen the new photos.
What have we learned about torture during the Bush years?
1)People were tortured. Not every technique might rise to the level of torture but when you put them all together, clearly it's torture. What do you think these photos show? Probably not waterboarding.
2) Most of the info obtained was through standard FBI-style non-abusive interrogation. Torture revealed at most a few scraps of info, combined with a mass of phony information.
3) Phony info was at least in part the point of the torture. Cheney wanted info linking al Qaeda to Iraq.
4) Most conservatives (there are a few honorable exceptions) really don't have a problem with torture.
5) Conservative rhetoric about upholding the law is basically bullshit.
6) Conservative are concerned about the photos, not what is in the photos, which is evidence of criminal activity.
7) Bush and Cheney and the whole gang were a disgrace to this country.
we're walking that fine line on the issue of accountability again.
are the individuals who were given the orders by their superiors to inflict torture going to be one ones to take the fall (again) while the perpetrators of the torture (the administration and cheney in particular) go back to their comfortable "civilian" life of cocktail parties and golf outings and planning multi-million dollar presidential "libraries / monuments" never to look back again on the devastation they caused?
i agree with gary that obama is listening to the generals. i don't see this as a flip flop. it may well TURN INTO major flip flop, but only time will tell on that one.
my sense is that he probably will cave in the end, unfortunately.
You know what Anita, you're right.
Campaigning on one thing and doing another isn't so much a flip flop as it is a lie and a broken promise to those that voted for him.
Thanks for clearing that up.
i never put obama on a pedestal, quite to the contrary. i've always been skeptical of him on any number of issues. he is, to a certain extent, your typical corporate politician, although he just happens to be whole lot better at it than all his peers, his magnificent marketing machine a major case in point.
that said, he certainly was the far better choice than the other guy who, issues aside, was clearly exhibiting symptoms of early alzheimer's disease and whose malignant melanoma would have likely ended his term early and thus leaving the nation with an under-educated and incurious hack of a vice president who would have become nothing but a pawn to the lunatic fringe of your party.
Speaking of education....
Obama release his grades yet?
You libs really are a hateful intolerant bunch of cunts. You bring up McCains health without acknowledging that we have a black smoker in the office. He could drop any day, and leave us with Biden.
You can continue lying to us but you can't lie to yourself.
.... And for the record Biden is looking better and better everyday.
.... And knock her all you want but its now clear that Palin was best candidate of all four. That's why you libs had destroy her.
I was wondering who would be the first to drag this discussion down into the gutter. Donkey wins.
It looks like some of the torture photos may have been leaked in 2006: http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/15/leaked-torture-photos-published-in-2006-may-be-among-photographs-obama-administration-shielding/
I am sure that you will be more shocked by the fact that the photos were leaked than by what is in them.
palin destroyed herself, simply by being herself. ain't that one for the record?
and health, in my opinion, is always fair game. and no, obama shouldn't smoke, and yeah, biden's probably gonna get a heart attack or another aneurysm before the first term is over.
I'm sorry but after seeing Americans being beheaded, naked twister just doesn't have the same shock value.
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