Update: I just heard Mark Levin on the radio and he was saying that Joe Biden was wrong when he referred to Article 1 of the constitution addressing the executive branch. It actually addresses the legislative branch. Not good for a guy who's been passing judgement on Supreme Court justices for decades. I Would think he should know a little bit about it. Posted 19:35hrs 10/3
I can't imagine how any honest person could watch these debates and not see that Palin scored a knockout. Not a "expectations were low so she did well" TKO, i mean a KNOCKOUT.
Why?
She was better on energy
She was better on the economy
She was better on the "who's more dangerous Pakistan or Iran" question
She basically dominated Biden in his area of strength which is supposed to be foriegn policy
As to Biden, he was on the ropes all night. She was the aggressor all night and pushed him around the ring. So what did Biden do to fight back? He did what he really does best, what his real strength is, he LIED. (and he might have declared war on our ally Pakistan)
1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.
2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.
3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”
4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.
5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.
6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.
7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false
8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.
9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.
10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.
11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.
12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more. Not to mention he would raise Cap. Gains which affects anyone who sells any investments at a profit including the stock market or real estate.
13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”
14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.
18 comments:
On #12, don't you mean $200,000 for the household not individual? I think it's household.
OK, here's the deal. Palin did well and here's why: All expectations were low (including me) because of all the media snips this week and she came out with strength and knowledge. She was crafty at having short answers on her weaker subjects, then coming back to her strengths. She was confident and dare I say, "hip". I mean she actually gave a "...shout out.."! Plus, she's so damn cute.
Well getlive isn't that the point?
She kicked ass on the things she was strong on, especially energy where Biden was out of his league and didn't talk about it all except his lie about clean coal.
She was better than Biden on the tax issue which forced him to lie again and say McCain voted for the same bill that raised taxes on people making 42k (she couldn't refute because she didn't know his entire voting record)
She whacked Obama on his air raiding villages line
She whacked him on saying he would meet with Iranian president (Biden lied again)
She pointed out that Biden himself said Obama's vote against a funding bill would put troops in harms way (he skirted it repeatedly)
She pointed out that Biden himself said he would run WITH McCain (He just smiled)
She was better than him on who was more dangerous Iran or Pakistan. Biden practically declared war on our ALLY (idiot)
She messed up only 1 thing and that was allowing herself to be equated with Cheney who i think is awesome, but is very unpopular.
Biden was so desperate he actually plugged HIS OWN WEBSITE to fact check himself! Like saying "really it's true i'm not lying, just ask ME!"
Dude it was a knockout no matter what your expectations were.
Heres the thing...
She crushed him. Badly.
Almost as badly as Dick Morris beat up on Alan Colmes during the post debate wrap up.
When the media's only knock is that your argument lacked substance and that you avoided questions, what that really means is that they disagree with what you said ideologicaly.
Granted expectations were low but even if they were high she would have surpassed them.
For fucks sake she was able to spin the gay marriage question in her favor and win the point.
She constantly used Bidens own words and actions against him making him look like a jackass while she made her conservative argument.
A clear Palin win.
Best Biden moment: "If you dont believe my facts just check them out at joebiden.com"
and...
Cheney IS super cool and awesome.
OK, we all agree Palin won. And, with that, she brought over a lot of undecided voters that were undecided due to the pick of Palin as VP. So in essence she did a good job re-enforcing the McCain base. The question is do you think she converted anyone? Do you think she brought over some folks from the other side?
Obviously, you, like many in the MSM believe Palin won, as did the MSM initially think that McCain won the first debate. The polls clearly indicated that Obama won the first debate and now they clearly show that the American people overwhelmingly believe that Joe Biden was the winner.
I'm not going to argue the talking points you obviously downloaded from Town Hall or some other Republican depository for "slamming back" ... everyone knows Joe Biden's record, for better or for worse. And most Americans will feel more safe and more confident about the future of our nation with Obama/Biden in office because they, unlike McCain have outlined policies that work toward rebuilding our spent middle class. Why do you guys not want to rebuild the middle class? You're both guys (as I understand it) from modest backgrounds who have done well. Don't you want to pass that on to your children and your children's children? And Sarah Palin, she had her own talking points down, to the point where when she didn't have an answer for the moderator, had the audacity to say, essentially, I'm Not Going to Answer Your Question.
And what do you think of Governor Palin's desire to INCREASE the power of the Office of the Vice President? I'd like to see her re-write a constitution that she's probably never even read.
On another note, the following pretty much sums up some of my own initial, albeit visceral, reaction to the "cute" and "adorable" Mrs. Palin. Believe me, as a woman, I am not swayed by her in that respect. It's sad that men like you guys, and Pat Buchanan obviously, fall victim to, what the writer of the article accurately describes as disengenuousness.
Also, what did you think of her proposal to INCREASE the power of the Vice President. Nice. Once again, we see she hasn't read the constitution.
From The Boston Herald:
Somewhere in between that blizzard of winks, smiles, “You betchas,” “doggone its” and “Gee whiz, I’m just a hockey mom, Joe Six-Pack kind of American,” I started to wonder if Joe Biden might go into a diabetic coma.
Amy Poehler said it best during Saturday’s “Saturday Night Live” sketch, when she looked over at Tina Fey’s Sarah Palin and noted: “When cornered, you have a tendency to become adorable.”
Last night, the real Sarah Palin was indeed adorable - relentlessly adorable. Sure, Sarah spoke plenty of ragtime - recycled bits from her convention speech - but she did it with a 100-watt smile and the adorable wink of one of those unbearably sunny TV weather babes.
I mean, didn’t you just love it when she blew off one of Gwen Ifill’s early questions by smiling straight into the camera and announcing: “I may not answer the question that you and the moderator want me to . . . but up there in Alaska . . .”
I’ve got to say that the strategy Papa McCain and his people settled on for their American Girl was brilliant. Forget there’s a debate, just keep talking that adorable gibberish.
When he could find a point to rebutt, Joe Biden did just that. He did it with facts and the clear, coherent language of a guy who happens to know John McCain a helluva lot better than the challenger who couldn’t stop smiling and winking.
But it wasn’t until the debate was finally over that Biden was able to cut through all the chirpiness and the saccharine slog about hockey moms and Wasilla’s main street. Joe Biden won this debate in that moment when he nearly broke down, talking about the tragedy he’s endured - not just with the loss of his wife and daughter in a car crash, but reaching all the way back to the days when his father was forced to leave home and go out of state looking for work.
“I understand what that’s about,” Biden said, struggling to keep his senatorial pose in check.
He was able to trump the insufferably adorable Sarah at her own game. And wisely, that was the only time she knew enough to keep her mouth shut and move on to another topic.
I do feel bad for Mitt Romney and whoever the hell that Lingel guy was that Palin mentioned. The Republicans won’t be calling Mitt out of the bullpen. Sarah was cute enough to hold Gramps’ hand through Election Day.
She was at turns, and by design, cloying, disingenuous, sarcastic, but oh, so very adorable. And that will be plenty for all the folks out there who really do believe that the best preparation for being vice president is shooting a moose and smiling relentlessly.
As sweet and syrupy as Sarah was last night, there was that weird Clockwork Orange/Village of the Damned moment at the very end, when Sarah let us know with a great big smile that if we didn’t vote for her and Gramps, then we might just wake up one day to find ourselves telling our grandchildren stories about those wonderful days when we used to be free.
Huh? Vote for Miss Wasilla or it’s the end of the world as we know it. You betcha.
Hold on Rhino, this one is so easy I can do it. Yea, all the polls show differently. Who controls the polls knucklehead?? The MEDIA! Of course they sway to the left. If all you've got is the power of the VP thing, you are WEAK.
First of all, don't call me a knucklehead.
That being said, WTF?
The media CONTROLS the polls? Gosh darn, I somebody told me that before.
You, Mr. Getliveayite, are a knucklehead.
I wish somebody told you that too! Then we wouldn't be arguing over who is a knucklehead.
Getlive is a knucklehead, however he's also correct.
I don't wait for the media to tell me who did what or the ABC polls to tell me who won. I decide for myself.
Anita, YOU like a lot of other liberals just excuse Joe Biden by saying "everyone knows joe biden" or "biden will be biden" and you're right, Biden is a liar (many examples not just last night) a plagarist (multiple examples) and a ego maniac (i dare you to deny any of it) So yeah, Biden will be Biden.
Bottom line is it was a debate, a political event. They both played politics and answered the questions they were strong on, and she ducked a couple that she wasn't strong on whereas Biden just made shit up. The object was to win and she did.
I hear the idiots in the media saying "she was very well coached" and all this other bullshit like Biden wasn't coached for a week. Bullshit.
MSNBC has mr. i have something running down my leg doing post debate analysis and shockingly he doesn't think she did too well. Gee, and the polls on that channel say Biden won.
I don't know if McCain will win, but if he doesn't it will be on him because she's done more for him than any other vp candidate ever.
Anita, by the way. Talk about lack of substance. You're entire rant is nothing more than a style critique. Did you read my post? Can you deny ANY of the points i make?
Finally, if you know history you know that the first 2 presidents had VP's from the opposing parties. Also, if you read the constitution, you know that the VP has a lot more power than you might imagine.
I wouldn't call it a KO but I thought she did well.
On the other hand, when Biden keeps his cool, he's a dangerous politician. And he kept his cool.
Score = even
How do you figure Jimbo?
He was good just because he didn't blow up?
He was helpless against her attacks using his own words,
he was helpless against her attacks on obama's words.
He lost on the energy argument, he lost on the Iraq war due to his own vote (which she slammed him on by saying i don't know how things work in washington where you can say one thing one day and something else the next)
He whacked pakistan as worse than Iran and they're our ally.
He maybe got a draw on Afghanistan because of the lie on the surge argument but FP was supposed to be his strong point.
She was on point and on offense all night.
How can anyone say that she didn't win when she very sweetly said "and senator biden i respect you for saying that Obama's vote to not fund the troops was a political vote and would probably cost us American lives" (not exact quote obviously)
He didn't land any big punches, and the few things he did look ok on, like saying McCain voted the same way a couple of times were lies.
If i'm wrong, i'm willing to be corrected. Please show me where.
I would say that if Biden didn't just make shit up, then it would have been a tie. How can you win a debate or even tie one when you make shit up?!!!!!
You can win ONLY if people are too ignorant to notice the lies, and the compliant media doesn't point them out afterwards, and even though he has both of those things going for him he still didn't win.
I am very diappointed in you Anita.
It was a clear win and quite frankly I find your response insulting to Palin, The Aurora, the entire debate process and women in general.
You accuse us of reguritating talking points yet I dont recall you having a problem with our logic when we declared oBama the winner (barely) of first debate or when we have bashed Bush in the past.
Whats more alamring is that you accuse us of using "talking points" then proceed to quote from some of the most liberal papers in the country.
I think Rhino wrote an excellent post detailing issue by issue why Sarah Palin won and your response is that our judgement is obviously clouded because shes cute. Now that is disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.
Let me be clear about this, in my lifetime not only have I popped bottles with models but have fucked plenty of ugly broads too. It takes more than a pretty face to impress me.
My guess is that as a well educated and succesful liberal woman you hold personal resentment towards Sarah Palin for not being the Sara Lawrence model of woman that you were indoctrinated to believe was the face of feminism.
Jack Kennedy won his debate vs Nixon in no small part because he was better looking yet an atttractive woman that is a conservative is just a bimbo in your eyes. It smacks of jealousy hypocrisy and yes sexism.
Meow! Catfight.
Regarding the skewing of poll data by the media the fact is that the audience of every network leans heavily liberal and of course mathematically its poll data will reflect that slant.
More importantly you slam Palin for not reading the Constitution which is 100% your opinion but we know for a fact that Biden incorrectly citing Article 1 of the Constitution which would be no big deal if he wasnt trying to make a point about the very office of veepee he is looking to hold.
Thats almost as bad as trying to explain how you understand how to handle market crashes by referencing FDR's handling of the Great Depression. Oops!
You cite Bidens chocking up as an example of how hes real but lets be honest if it was Gov Palin you would be blasting her for being a sensitive emotional and weak woman unfit to lead and you god damn well know it.
Palin won because she was stronger, was on offense more and made her points on every issue while showing how Biden was and would be wrong. Biden wasnt terrible (well besides the blatant lies) he just wasnt as good as Gov. Palin.
Once again let me reiterate an earlier point I made, a Conservative Christian won the gay marriage argument against a liberal pansey ass. Thats what you call debating.
She crushed him, deal with it.
Guys: Thanks for some straight talk. I get so sick of this completely biased media who are completely fooled by Obama's fancy manners and Biden's so-called experience.
I am extremely offended that the liberal media has given so little attention to John McCain's service to his country, his bravery, his long experience in the Senate, his expertise on foreign policy and on economic policy. When are they going to wake up and see that Barack "Hussein" Obama is a socialist verging on communist? When is the elite media going to remember that this is a dangerous world we live in and we need a strong president like John McCain who always puts America first?
I couldn't agree more that Governor Palin won her debate against Biden. Biden just bored me with all that talk about amendments and different countries. That's fine. But he's a typical Washington insider who always puts himself first not his country. For all his experience debating in the senate, I thought it was great how easily a newcomer to the national scene like Palin made a fool of Biden. It was really easy to do though because Biden seemed to forget that he wasn't a citizen of the world. He's a citizen of the greatest country in the world -- the USA.
I also think that besides Obama's extreme leftist views, he's also part of the blame America first crowd and his association with Jeremiah Wright, this other terrorist, and Louis Farrakhan make him a crazy selection for president of USA.
I hope my home state of New Jersey will go for Senator McCain and Governor Palin. I know my hometown of Ocean Grove will, though. And I plan to volunteer for the campaign tomorrow.
Great post.
Post a Comment